* Topic is 'Today's Discussion: "Visual Novel Storytelling Approaches. How do you write your VN stories?"' I could start with my approach for Wings II should I? bah, 5 more minutes! yeah, it gives Fee-ah his 5 more minutes anyway please do, cloud ok... so this is my own style... Yes <3 First of all, I need something that inspires me. Something that makes me experience a strong feeling. usually, it's melancholy or anger. for Wings II, it was a mixture of both. At... all that "I wanna make a commercial game" talk in LSF (It's true) "Whaaat!? So you guys are calling my stories mini-games now? What's with all this word-count talk? Why is everyone so concerned with the "correct" way of storytelling?" these were my thoughts that was... about 2 years ago same time as DaFool made his first appearance so anyway There was this giant thread that went on for a full 24 hours or so DaFool is connected? uh huh with people posting back and forth in that thread arguing about the importance of making the "Great English Visual Novel" or something. and so... I made at least two posts on that thread and then dropped out The feeling was there Now, all I needed to do was write the story The first step was to outline the plot. Not on paper in my head. What did I want to happen? More importantly, what did I want to convey? To build up to? (I want to prove these jokers wrong!) (I want to make a game where the individual elements of the VN are unimportant.) (I want a game that embodies these emotions that I have right now) and so, I came up with the idea of a frustrated author but, I had to add in the melancholy Thus, the amnesia bit Sure, it's a cliche but... It doesn't matter! I'll make it a non-cliche cliche And so I came up with this plot: protagonist is a journalist, has amnesia (not revealed til the end of the story) goes to the hometown of her past self to learn more about herself and while there, four stories are intertwined with her past self's One, a children's story that she writes herself and three stories from people that she knew in the past but doesn't remember now For the children's story it had to have some subtle connection to the main story I planned that for the other three stories, I interviewed some ppl I knew from another forum and used their stories with some modification and with that plot... all that was needed was to actually write everything down. this is where the strong feelings that I had from earlier come into play. I find that when I'm under the drunken influence of these strong feelings, the words just come out so spontaneously. So I wrote and wrote and wrote as the "epic" thread grew larger and larger Inwardly, I was chuckling at all the useless posts being made I finished writing the first draft for Wings II by the next day (the thread was still active) and so... to gloat a little. I made another post in that thread "Wow! looks like this thread has grown even more while I was away." I lied. :P and... after that came the mechanical stuff like putting the story into ren'py and all Although... when everything is done. I enjoy polishing the presentation style to suit the mood I want to convey the end questions are welcome :3 Waah, that sounds great ^^ well, I think I found you to be a pain back then, cloud. go on, FIA and doesn't mugen play into this story somewhere? But I guess being an "accomplice" get me to understand more. mugen? I pm'd him to gloat On the other hand.... well, for starters it would probably be good to know which thread you're referring to exactly i thought he was gonna do the serysia story art or something? http://www.sendspace.com/file/fyx9ia <--- 3 hr and 20 minutes.... D: I am not worth it. X_x "Hah! While everyone was arguing, I completed this little story!" mugen: That's great. Let's surprise everyone and release it together mugen: I can do the art for the Serysia sidestory mugen: Also, it's a total rip of AIR. I want to edit your story a bit. My friend who is a writer says it's too much like AIR. another silent release Fia? =P like that thats how mugen comes into play fast forward 2 years later Interesting stuff. Sounds like something good to have as bonus content ;P release without mugen art? mugen still hasn't finished the Serysia sidestory and artwork and then that controversial "benasu" stuff appears I get partly blamed for the incident. I don't like that ya know, you should've made a public release of wings II The feeling inspires me the forums are much like they were then, just with lowered IQ Harsh words =O drake: hehe, I like that. and a little change of lexicon instead of the "great oel race" go on Ren: Well... if there is a vn dumpage in lsf, it will belong in there its the "great tsukihime the second" race :3 Fia:there should be, now that you mention it :3 there's this whole anti-type moon undercurrent going on here btw, since I plan to publish this log the controversial stuff will be deleted :D you don't /have/ to I don't have to... though it is a little off topic i /can/ own up to my own words mm... drake, with your permission then It's kind of sad how everyone only admires Tsukihime hm, I see that tom is rather not pleased with the sketch It's not the greatest VN ever, as I have stated before (permission granted) I wouldn't say "not pleased" FIA =P shocked And if everyone gets inspired by one VN, our selection of OELVNs might end up a little one-sided in the end Hime: that's what I don't like mm mm also... aren't we forgetting something important? (Maybe more bemused) Enjoy making visual novels. All we'll have is games with vampires, imoutos, maids and cynical killer protagonists That's right, lordcloudx fia, did you play through this yourself yet? I mean... One of the things why I wanted to join the forums was because there wasn't much competitive spirit at all drake: Unknown.zip? Even if I get major migraines while making my stuff. If you meant typo it is a script made in a hurry no, the screen isn't completely redrawn Even if I get frustrated at what I've drawn for my game later... those cgs of eileen don't cover the whole screen In most creative communities, it's like artists trying to be better than each other all the time so you can read what you already read behind it And at my pathetic skills at music I enjoy torturing myself like that. drake: Well, guess I should not have hurried The process of VN-creation itself is important. It's not only the end-product that should count. At the moment, our forum is heading to the direction of becoming a forum with lots of competition in every aspect of VNs Music, art, writing and word counts Hime, you think so? that brings me to that little comparison I made http://i26.tinypic.com/23r09cg.png you can see what i mean there because you skipped no if you press with mouse, should do. i did it with the mouse my first play through and i got the same thing nope Ren, well, it's not going at a great speed or anything, but... Mm, I kinda get that impression, Hime, with all of these talented people coming out of the woodwork =P it did that to me, and I didn't skip Fia let me restate that comparison I mentioned should be in the logs * FIA-Kaiser slaps head I forgot that script.rpyc. D: well, but the new talented people like Mikan don't necessarily make for a more competitive mood it's more about the attitude one has, talented or not i don't really have that much against the competition element but the people who think they're gonna make the next breakout hit that'll revolutionalize the oel scene are delusional Me either, but I kinda feel that I need to step things up if I want people to even look at the game ^^; drake: I think that's the same view that FIA holds... i am not going to say anything regarding this discussion right? i mean, it's fine to make big and bold for the oel scene because I know that is a totally deadbeaten horse but i just can't imagine anyone making anything that'll be appreciated /outside/ the oel scene hmm... (or inside too, in some cases...) I could argue with that i mean, it's not impossible Hikari's Ribbon makes a great gift but i don't see it with what i'm seeing now in mini-cdr =P all the ppl I've been giving em away to liked it. well sure, i can give you that but it's not broken out into some hysteric fad like tsukihime has true enough were a niche within a niche i mean, even one of my coworkers liked starlit sky even though he's never touched a vn before i don't think it's the next tsukihime though Visual Novels aren't that popular outside of Japan in the first place. drake: True, but it shines in a way that is different from Tsukihime but i think it'd be hard to even break into the tl scene like if you made an ordinary person play Tsukihime... Would that person actually like it? that's a damn good question I doubt that person would even get past the intro "What is this? A glorified slideshow?" Which is... what visual novels are, especially the non-branching kind. funnily enough, my coworker talks like that whenever i mention "visual novels" I guess it depends on the persons interests and culture, but I doubt most of the non-otaku I know IRL wouldn't like it but he still liked SS see? i've been trying to push e17 onto him, with little success that's why we our works can break outside the OEL community I made my sis play Ever17. speaking from experience, I joined the community The only VN she had ever played before was Nattsu only after pytom discoverd my three already released games And oh, she adored Ever17 But I don't think Tsukihime's like that I think that a normal person would find Ever17 more appealing than Tsukihime Because y'know, I think we're selling ourselves short if we think that no one else except lsf ppl will appreciate our works that's not true! sure It's just that you need to get people's attention first. but honestly... i only make my stuff /for/ lsf so i really don't care who else plays it Oh, I see I think that kind of goes for me too in a way Well, I'm more selfish I don't expect anyone else to play it although my audience at lsf has disappeared as of late it seems... my liddle poem summarizes my thoughts for me http://animerd2k2.net/mypoems.htm 2nd poem Mm, I think it's a good thing to only write for yourself,too drake: you've gained one new audience (is that right?) Heh, you guys are lucky. me yeah i suppose i have * FIA-Kaiser never gets WS out for any sort of publication over here.... Brothers? They sneeze at it. Friends? English too hard... ooooh you /did/ have some folks on the tl side beta it though... translate it to your native tongue? Well, I wouldn't have shown Nattsu to my sister if she hadn't begged ^^; drake: That "did" is sure skeptish enough Like... I also half-forced my boyfriend to play it, but his position is kind of special you know All say-and-no-show. well, they expressed interest at the beginning at least even if tsukihime took their time and attention away how bout the visualnews people? I think they congratulated you for your game. I lurk none of them really matter with me with Mirrormoon going on... mm.. Tsukihime's so overrated it hurts "Sorry, was too busy playing tsukihime. Will respond to yours in a week." And I waited, and I waited, and I waited... * Hime gently pats FIA So now I can only suffice myself by making fanworks out of everything I see. =( So... just make more games. Short, long, it shouldn't matter as long as you feel that what you're doing is good. says the man who is "retiring" haha I'm still the artist/editor for Broken Sky but yeah, I guess I shouldn't preach about making more games if I don't plan to make more myself :P of course, and by last year June... when I expected the heat for Tsukihime has settled down... Fate/Stay Night! I sent out mass messages to all volunteers of the completion. oh Only 2 replied. ;_, That's sad.. Out of 10, only two One is here, there other is Mr E. that would be... drake? I really understand your hate for Tsukihime, FIA People should take their commitments more seriously =( I forgot to mention self-imposed deadlines mine is two weeks on average. I'm beginning to hate Type-Moon myself non-stop working on the elements of the VN everyday during those two weeks Mostly because of the fandom "People should take their commitments more seriously =(" this is hard to do, kikered Fandom can easily ruin something, unfortunetly Of course, procastinating on the writing part is excusable. the story is still the core of the VN after all. I don't really hate tsukihime because of that, hime. I am more disgusted with the volunteer work... Mm well... I delude myself by saying the only audience I want to satisfy is me Let me correct it then: "People should take their commitments that involve other people more seriously" =P again, hard especially one that told me he will give me feedback later on. i remember i had to bail out of three projects because i felt i needed to concentrate on me to get work done and in the end, did very little with that "me" time anyway =P haha, I feel like a black sheep How so? not at all, sensei-ren I'm the only one who doesn't hate Tsukihime nor is a fan of it see? I feel the same. I just pretend to hate it from time to time :P I'm in the same boat - probably because I haven't played it ;P lol I played it a bit, while I did I thought it was very entertaining everyone should play tsukihime! if in the end, only to get more excited about playing melty blood I played it. Didn't finish it Ah, I like melty blood It was a nice VN, but it's hugely overrated Shiki Tohno is my favorite character (fruit knife and all) mmh, fruit knofe pah, shiki I always used Akiha in MB :3 (I generally prioritize commitments to others first - hence, I rarely commit to others. =P ) that doesn't even compare to akiha and her hair I thought Tsukihime was an average VN. it makes me think of those luxury cakes, with fruit and wipped cream compared to the insani translated free ones. mm Narcissu, Red Shift Tsukihime is a nice, average VN. True Remberance =D i /loved/ red shift I liked em better than tsukihime had more feeling i'm not a narcissu fan though A nice, average VN that's being worshipped like a god. not their fault though Same here! I made my sister try RS, but she didn't like the girl =( She that it was "okay" in the end though =P Red Shift was awesome though, and TR is definitely worth the time you put into it RS was enjoyable indeed :3 *she said I liked the protagonist's characterization in RS, but I can't say it was all that original I might make her try TR and Ever17. some things made me go crazy though She doesn't seem to have anything to do this summer anyway... ;P Kike, E17 works :3 e17 is a drug really I tried to introduce YMK to my sister too, but she seemed a little embarrassed about the ero content, though still eager to play it that makes you dream? yume miru was good too It's kind of weird and makes me wonder if I should give it to her or not ^^; Speaking of eroge.... that maki-chan pic again? What is that name already? The eroparody vn? Open Days or something? yes! I loved it :D Well... I got into some rather pleasant situation with it... You see, when I was going to persuade a friend to try WS. mmm :o Friend : Is it like Open Days? FIA: Uh... Oh my Friend: (Starts playing...) Heck, just like what I expected. Sorry, F.I.A. Just not my cup of tea. =( mm :< aw.. You know what they said about vn being hentai game. Yeah.. I guess that hold the stereotype just right... mm.. And WS got stereotyped. ah :< http://www.sendspace.com/file/0r2zva <-- Fixed version Speaking of VNs being hentai, Yumemiru It had way too much hentai D: To be honest, it'd be pretty embarrassing if people I knew IRL played my stuff. =X I feel like that too "Sorry, the free service is at full capacity." My boyfriend's an exception drake: Good riddance, eh? well, it's not that much different is it? When my sister played it, I was all "it's old and bad and YOU WON'T ENJOY IT ;_;" ...But she insisted... =O kikered; I can relate to that. I need to put on a poker face for that. Of course, most probably my brothers are not playing because 1) They will not be interested with it. I'd never let my brother play Nattsu 2) They are not bothered to comment on a work by their little brother Because of that one scene ':3 XD my sisters don't read... ;__; I'm her great, reliable big sister, I can't write about butt-grabbing Neither do I =3 Amen no no, i shouldn't be so harsh one reads IM windows another reads Myspace comments and the third one reads... Lauren K Hamilton... *laurell I'm the weird, stoic brother! I can't write about warm and fuzzy romantic(?) stuff. =P brb lunch mmm... * Kikered_ is now known as Kik|Lunch kikered: Neither do I. Of course, I guess I should not be all down and stuff... since I did get a friend who managed to play through WS. Of course, he voiced his comment regarding a certain wordings in Evil God's route.... appaling. hmm. http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3674 Okay, I don't think proceeding with Limitless Fire is a good idea.