Session Start: Mon Nov 24 00:00:00 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [00:00] well time's up ^^; [00:00] good night! [00:00] we'll get you next time, moni! [00:00] next time! [00:00] xD [00:00] later! [00:00] *scared* [00:00] *flees* [00:00] * Disconnected Session Close: Mon Nov 24 00:00:57 2008 Session Start: Mon Nov 24 18:54:21 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [18:54] * Now talking in #baka-trio [18:54] * Topic is 'Anthology Project: http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm -- Topic - Let's discuss/explain our stories! Target: Moni!' [18:54] * Set by drakey on Sun Nov 23 02:31:48 [18:54] -ChanServ- [#baka-trio] Welcome to #baka-trio. The Visual Novel developer's skill workshop channel. http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm #baka-trio url is http://real-life.animerd2k2.net [19:54] * Joins: lordcloudx (n=lordclou@acl1-730bts.gw.smartbro.net) [19:54] greetings [19:54] ah! the target is present [19:56] nyo [19:57] unfortunately, I haven't played Magbou :) [19:57] I'm about the only one [19:57] ahahaha [19:58] that's amusing :) [19:59] but... that doesn't preclude me from interrogating you >) [20:01] of course :p [20:01] you can ask about unreleased projects, past and future :) [20:02] I have other ideas >) [20:02] Now then, I didn't play magbou because I'm not into VN/game hybrids [20:03] What would you say is your game's strongest point? [20:05] :) [20:06] * Joins: Hime (n=Hime@a88-114-62-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [20:07] greetings, Hime [20:07] hello Hime :) [20:08] the game's strongest point?... mm... it's difficult to say ô_o [20:08] Because there's what I've wanted to do, what people liked about it and what I've since thought about the game [20:09] so I'm kinda conflicted about it [20:09] of course [20:09] I'm asking your own opinion :) [20:09] Hi [20:09] I wanted to put an emphasis on a quiet life experience [20:09] I see [20:09] and how does Magbou pull this off? [20:09] something with no violent or too saddening conflicts [20:10] yet something where you have challenges. [20:10] Basically, the idea was that you were seeking to improve, but not necessarily compete with others [20:10] (people asked for competitors a lot and I just never liked the idea ^^; ) [20:11] and how it pulls it off... [20:11] is through a few characters that I hope were endearing [20:12] an uncommon theme mixed with a common game mechanic : making potions with ingredients (management game) [20:12] and quests to help people, but nothing like conquest or killing others [20:13] so, basically a feel-good game that doesn't take itself too seriously. [20:14] What inspired you to make such a game? Was it planned from the beginning? [20:16] hmph! I wonder where the kikkoman is... I need to know the color of her dress http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7878/testyj4.jpg [20:16] It's a good summary, yes ^^ [20:16] What inspired me was my own need for such a game. [20:17] How about Shoujo Attack? [20:17] I mean, I love playing fighting games, FPS, real time strategy, turn-based, battles, violence, etc... [20:17] Isn't the spirit of that game similar? [20:17] heck, I've been playing a week of left 4 dead lately ;) [20:17] mmmm... [20:17] I haven't played it much but I think Shoujo Attack is a bit detached from the story point of view? [20:17] yup [20:17] it's more about the game [20:18] whereas MagBou was more about the mood [20:18] I see, I see [20:18] immersing the player into the game world? [20:18] It was very detailed, but I hope what was there had enough character to be appreciated as something soothing [20:18] not something where you have to put your brain in overheat ;) [20:18] and yes, immersion, quite important [20:19] though I don't think it was successful enough given the small scope of the released version [20:19] Ok, regarding that last statement [20:20] How close is magbou to the originally envisioned game? [20:22] well.... [20:23] I'd have to remember everything I had planned (it's all noted down so it could be just a matter of time ^^), but... [20:23] I'd say the mood was there, even if it was just introductory [20:23] but the game part was supposed to have more content [20:24] I won't give examples since you haven't played it, it won't speak much to you :) [20:24] but let's say that what was released was really just the beginning [20:24] and I still consider it "not the real MagBou" to some extent [20:25] at times considering I haven't yet released a game ^^; [20:25] (depends on my mood :p) [20:26] I see [20:26] downloaded the game now [20:26] I might give it a try if I get bored [20:26] now then... [20:26] xD [20:27] you sound so thrilled :P [20:27] I noticed that DaFool was at the height of his hyperactivity (lol) during the development and initial release of this game [20:27] (Yes, I know.) [20:28] What particular roles did you both play as co-creators and would you say that the development process was an enjoyable one over-all? [20:29] hehe also, game VNs don't interest me just as you seem to have an aversion for my type of bittersweet stories [20:29] so we're even [20:29] haha, yeah I know ^^ I'm certainly not holding it against you :) It's just about tastes :) [20:30] So, how it happened is that I released these proof of concepts first, and people, surprisingly, played them a lot already [20:30] It was thrilling but also somewhat sad because I thought "will the mood really had anything then? ^^;" [20:31] but anyway, i went on with my ideas, updated the prototypes and wrote bits of story (which I kept hidden) [20:31] After a while, the scope of what I had in mind just caught up with me and I burnt out (as usual may I add ^^;...) [20:32] At that point, MagBou was more or less dead in the water [20:32] And one day, DaFool sent me a pm filled with positivity [20:32] juicy! [20:32] :) [20:33] He was wondering when it would be released and all, and pointed out how little was needed to make it into something playable [20:33] Far from my original vision, sure, but completable [20:33] Something I never realized because I kept being stuck on that big ass vision I wanted to reach [20:34] So it was a surprise and he actually offered to color drawings and draw backgrounds to replace the shop ones [20:34] My job would be to add a few quests and a final quest to give some closure [20:34] and polish it up a bit [20:35] After the failures of Kittease and Utsukushii Planet, I was quite eager to see a project finished [20:35] so I went for it [20:35] I'm definitely glad he pushed me like this [20:35] oh he also did music ^^ [20:36] interesting [20:37] the game certainly showcases your programming skills [20:37] ever play Grimgrimoire? [20:38] lesser known Vanillaware game [20:38] Nope. I know about it, saw some trailers [20:38] Right, would you consider a magbou-like game using that type of character animation? [20:38] Mmm.... [20:38] I'm sure it's not beyond ren'py's capacity [20:39] I'll start by saying that GG didn't appeal to me because, in spite of its wonderful graphics (Vanillaware <3), it seemed way too slow for me [20:39] that's just to say I might be biased in what follows :3 [20:39] Uhh... actually, as it is, I don't think Ren'Py can handle that [20:39] Ah, but the character animations during the cutscenes were decent [20:40] although it depends on how much you imagine keeping [20:40] I was actually talking about the cutscenes [20:40] The thing is, they use 3D to do that [20:40] sure [20:40] They use flat polygons and apply textures on them [20:40] but all they actually do is animate the mouths [20:40] I've tried to do that for 2D animation ^^; [20:40] and the eyes [20:40] oh no :3 [20:40] haven't you seen them breathing? :D [20:40] that's what's cool about this method ^^ [20:40] I could do that in flash [20:40] in fact, I have an example [20:41] Mmm... but you need deformation... smooth one [20:41] easy [20:41] yeah? [20:41] I'm intrigued :) [20:41] ah... yes [20:41] (I have seen people do such animations with morphing programs too... animating still pictures) [20:41] all I did was make distort the character in a looping animation [20:42] but in Flash? ô_o [20:42] Now... using the many still images for one character [20:42] oh yeah [20:42] here lemme upload [20:42] yeah, please ^^ [20:42] I haven't used Flash for graphics recently, so I'm curious :) [20:43] first thing we were taught in a flash crash course [20:43] you can replicate the effect using about 4-5 still pics [20:44] looping [20:44] oh... but the distorsion is rendered outside of Flash then hm? [20:44] http://animerd2k2.net/praktis.swf [20:44] nope [20:44] in flash [20:44] ok ok, I see now [20:44] the face is on a different layer [20:45] I thought it might be this method [20:45] Which is what they did with vanillaware, I think [20:45] so yeah, the thing with Flash is that you're limited to quads [20:45] the face on a different layer [20:45] so all you can do is enlarge horizontally [20:45] or vertically [20:45] and that's quite limited [20:45] diagonally too [20:45] I just didn't [20:46] you mean skewing or just combining V and H ? [20:46] I used flash 8 [20:46] I manually distorted the image [20:46] and created a tween animation [20:46] I might've overdone it with that example [20:47] the face is attached to the body [20:47] but is also on a different layer [20:47] so it doesn't get distorted along with the body [20:47] stole that idea from japanese h-flashes [20:47] lol [20:47] yeah, lol, that's where I saw the method first too ;) [20:48] I don't remember the group who made incredibly beautiful animations from this... except they used something like Premier to morph pictures [20:48] *Premiere [20:48] (I'll try to get a screenshot of what I mean in 3D, though) [20:49] sure, and with different layers for each body part [20:49] all animated sprites, of course [20:49] you get one coherent (almost) breathing picture [20:49] I was lazy on this example [20:49] I used only two layers [20:50] anywayz, what I was thinking [20:50] was if you could do something like this in flash [20:50] and then take individual screenshots of each phase [20:50] you could replicate the effect using ren'py [20:51] well, yeah, you could always prepare some full movie animation and put it in Ren'Py [20:51] as long as you have frames... [20:51] but it wouldn't be very optimized [20:51] big files [20:52] that's a given [20:52] how bout just the lip animations? [20:52] and blinking [20:52] magbou is certainly just a few steps below "commercial quality." [20:55] reminds me a lot of... Legend of Mana [20:55] http://monele.ifrance.com/divers/polys.jpg (finally found it!) [20:56] yyh [20:56] A few steps?... Large steps then :) [20:56] yeah, Kurama :D [20:56] Lip animation, why not [20:56] Blinking, why not [20:56] not really [20:56] They're the kind of polish that adds some value, but not a lot [20:56] in my opinion [20:57] a little graphical overhaul [20:57] Well, in all honesty, graphics need an -- there, you said it :)... [20:57] and the game system also needs one [20:57] hmm... [20:57] ppl won't notice with the pretty pictures [20:57] broke teeth on it when I tried to repair it [20:58] mm... I'm not fond of hiding behind pretties ^^; [20:58] true [20:58] it's interesting, thus far [20:58] not really my type of game, though [20:58] You can paint a wall any color you want... if it's weak, it'll break [20:59] would it be if there wasn't any management? [20:59] *curious* [20:59] hmm... it could very well be [20:59] Would a Free mode be a nice feature you think? [20:59] I like the atmosphere [20:59] yup [20:59] Something where you don't really have to play and get to see all the scenes? [20:59] yah [21:00] that would be appeal to someone like me [21:00] I'll keep that in mind :) [21:00] I see many casual games doing this, so... :) [21:01] the ability to use your own avatar would be nice :) [21:01] I hesitated a lot on that [21:02] the blue silhouette is both proof of that and lack of time ;) [21:02] hehe [21:02] the comic book type balloon is a nice touch [21:02] It's hard because I'm both fan of blank slate avatars and developed avatars ^^; [21:02] Stole that from Littlewitch games :) [21:03] Always wanted to make something as pretty [21:03] The interface is also pretty [21:04] as far as I'm concerned, the character art is the only thing keeping this game from skyrocketing to zomg! commercial qualiteh! [21:04] *sniffles* :P [21:05] hm? [21:05] well it's mine, so sniffles :P [21:05] oooh [21:05] ahaha [21:05] but yeah, it's definitely not "up there" [21:05] actually, It just needs a little tweaking [21:06] like pretty coloring [21:06] honestly, when you look at things... commercial qualiteh is really not much [21:06] All it takes is nice graphics and you'll wow most people :) [21:06] sure, I'm not a fan of that [21:06] In fact, I hate that! [21:06] you can see it in the logs [21:06] lolz [21:06] yeah but you can't help it [21:06] I fall victim to it too [21:06] Odin Sphere grabbed me because of its art [21:06] but... y'know [21:07] Framboise just needs a little bit more work on the colors [21:07] and... [21:07] (of course, bad games won't wow me for long) [21:07] outlines [21:07] It's because DaFool went straight with the preliminary sketches I did :) [21:07] a one px stroke of outlines outside her sprite would do wonders [21:07] it *was* a rush job ;) [21:07] lemme show ya what I mean [21:08] I think I see. I went with out-shadows at the time [21:08] but I see the appeal of a black outline now [21:08] hey! the images are obfuscated! [21:08] would have worked well [21:08] haha XD [21:08] no wai~~ ! [21:08] Yeah yeah, I don't think we ever released assets :) [21:09] bah [21:10] and I don't still don't feel comfortable about it ^^;... [21:10] *clings* mine~ [21:10] :3 [21:11] more honestly, it's because I don't feel I've totally given up on MagBou, so... I'm still holding on it ;) [21:11] kewl [21:11] make moe eyes next time :D [21:11] adds a lot [21:12] lol [21:12] you can get away with murder using moe eyes [21:13] so, what's next after magbou? [21:13] xD [21:13] you'll kill me but I still don't buy the whole "moe" thing :3 [21:13] just fine [21:13] I'm not samu [21:13] I still want to call it "cute" ^^ [21:13] but I see what you mean :) [21:13] anywayz, this is the effect I meant http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1567/mariawa8.png [21:14] yeah, ish what I thought ^^ [21:14] I'd make it thinner though [21:15] But I do like how it looks like, hm.... they had these little paper dolls as gifts in boxes of food and stuff, you know? :) [21:15] Ah yes, I used 3px on that one [21:15] and the lines aren't optimized for that effect [21:15] and it was all cartoony but had this outline [21:15] (and she has too much black already! xD) [21:15] outlines are awesome [21:16] It's a style in the end. It has to fit the game [21:17] wouldn't put that in Fate [21:17] Fate/Stay night? [21:17] use gray outlines at 1px instead [21:18] looks best on 2D celshaded http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7025/ayuayupd1.png [21:20] yeah, I'm not even sure I'd use it on anything else that celshaded stuff [21:23] Oh yeah... so what's the deal with Utsukushii planet? [21:24] I remember back when it was the very benchmark of ren'py customization as a demo [21:24] haha, yeah ^^;.. [21:24] what to say about it... [21:24] It was probably my only true VN project [21:25] (since Kittease just wasn't really public) [21:25] * Joins: Kik|Work (n=kikered@nat/microsoft/x-bab08a40887b0e80) [21:25] I sense a Kik [21:25] ah, here he is [21:25] Hello, everyone ^^ [21:25] *tingle* [21:25] Is something going on? ^^; [21:25] *points at topic* [21:25] interview tiem [21:25] *points at you* [21:25] *points at everyooooone* [21:26] ^^; [21:26] >.>... [21:26] so yeah, as I was saying, UP went after Asylium and Kittease [21:27] Asylium is something that was planned and planned for a long time [21:27] Kittease was somewhat planned and partly prototyped [21:27] With UP, I wanted to see if I could just start writing and creating assets as I went [21:27] It worked well at first [21:27] and seeing something polished from the start was a huge motivator [21:27] one at a time :P [21:28] I had to pause after a while to reorganize my thoughts [21:28] * Joins: MoonlightBomber (n=maelstor@acl1-432bts.gw.smartbro.net) [21:28] hey, kik http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/7878/testyj4.jpg [21:28] hi, MB [21:28] like, color of her clothes? [21:28] Hello [21:28] I first planned to have the game allow you to pick one of four paths in the beginning, each linked to a girl [21:28] greetz, MB [21:28] hello MB :) [21:29] but I quickly realized that four paths, all different, and yet linking back to the same main path with the team of four girls would be impossible [21:30] So I put the main branch way closer. Basically, after the intro part, you'd have the full team [21:30] And then the other big problem appeared : I wrote everything in French up to then [21:30] ._. [21:30] (It kinda looks... Samu style? ^^; ) [21:30] *hates translating* [21:30] lol! the eyes? [21:31] Gift: Eternal Rainbow [21:31] just showin off my awesome versatility [21:31] :D [21:31] ^^; [21:31] ok, like gimme the color of her clothes, j00 [21:31] (I think the face and maybe the head in general... ^^; ) [21:32] if it is Samu style... [21:32] I'm better at it newayz [21:32] Leaving the translation for the end wasn't an option, Monele? ^^; [21:32] doesn't matter [21:33] hey, Kikered! That's my version of Solangel. What color are her clothes supposed ta be? [21:33] (The hands seem a bit weird, too ^^; ) [21:33] foreshortened [21:33] it'll look fine with shading [21:33] just watch [21:33] can't be wrong [21:33] I traced a manequin over [21:34] lolz [21:34] I cheat [21:36] Hm.. I was thinking the dress is white and the corset-thing to be black or some shade of grey. ^^; [21:37] so, Monele [21:37] kik : and not getting feedback from the community? ;_; [21:37] white and gray [21:37] kik : I need my food for the soul :) [21:37] and I also need my food for the body which is why I'm gonna have diner now :3 [21:37] Hehe =3 [21:38] what about that part that the cross falls on? [21:38] is it bare flesh? [21:38] * Monele is now known as MoniEat [21:38] Yup. [21:38] later, frenchy [21:38] (lord : were you asking me something?) [21:38] (or about to) [21:39] The cross thing is connected to a choker of sorts ^^; [21:39] Monele: just wanted you to continue [21:39] (ok, later then ^^) [21:39] kik: color of choker? [21:40] Black? =3 [21:40] got it [21:45] (Side note: I am amused that coworkers at least one decade older than me use shorthand like 'u' and 'r' in IM conversation. =3 ) [21:45] :) [21:45] how bout ftw? [21:45] Not yet [21:49] * Joins: Samu-kun (n=chatzill@12-216-2-115.client.mchsi.com) [21:50] waiting >) [21:50] Kikered: cross is also black? [21:50] or gold? [21:51] I'd say silver [21:51] Hi, Samu [21:52] Hello [21:55] you bring the goods? [21:56] ^^; [21:56] line of hat? [21:57] Hm... up to you. =3 [21:57] red, yellow, blue [21:57] I choose lavender [21:57] lol [22:07] I guess yellow will do [22:08] http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/test.jpg [22:08] I'll leave teh shading for laterz [22:09] Hmm. =3 [22:10] teh hands'll look fine after some heavy handed distortion >) [22:10] Hurr by the way [22:10] any colour suggestions for a picture? [22:11] (Hair col + eye col + shirt col + skirt col) [22:11] hair = silver eye = red shirt = black skirt = white [22:11] hmmh :o [22:11] there [22:12] Thank you, I'll try that out (I'm open for more suggestions as well, though) [22:12] Eh? [22:13] Interesting combination. Sounds vampirish. =3 [22:13] really? [22:14] have a reference, Hime http://www.astrobunny.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/80d8c83813a73ecdf6d7d2bc192d6d0e_raw.jpg [22:14] :P [22:14] haha :D [22:14] =3 [22:14] She has meganes, won't work ;< [22:15] hair = pink eyes = blue skirt=red [22:15] hmm :o [22:16] I think this combination suits her pretty well already though ;D [22:16] your suggestion was too good, sorry <3 [22:17] It is a solid color combination. =3 [22:17] Also, I think I see where you were going with that second suggestion. [22:19] I has no idea what you're talkin about [22:19] =3 [22:22] * MoniEat is now known as Monele [22:22] backu [22:22] now if I remember, correctly, Monele is the same age as me [22:22] ahaha! good [22:22] wb [22:22] I don't have to feel so old in here [22:22] :P [22:22] XD [22:22] Aren't you close to the same age as FIA, too? [22:23] *is 25* [22:24] hah! hah! hah! [22:24] he's older than me [22:24] >.>... [22:24] http://hitana.deviantart.com/art/PS9-First-Snow-104497808 d'awwie~ [22:24] by a few months, I think [22:24] I'm from April [22:25] February [22:25] but you're 24? [22:25] you are supposed to be a year older, but because my b-day is close to the start of the year, it's only a few months [22:25] yup [22:26] well, it's less than a year, but not much ô_o [22:26] also, it doesn't show on my freakin youthful face! [22:26] ahahaha! [22:26] oh well [22:27] oh yeah, FIA is the same age as me [22:29] Man! I find it marginally hard to believe that I'm close to the same age as you guys. ^^; [22:30] bbl [22:30] * Kik|Work is now known as Kik|Meeting [22:34] amazing what a few colored outlines can do http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/test1.jpg [22:35] * Joins: drakey (n=Drake@c-69-142-74-88.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) [22:36] *thumbs up* [22:36] greetings, drakey [22:36] the target is present [22:36] MONELE! [22:36] gyaaah@_@! [22:36] *hides behind couch* [22:36] ._. [22:36] did you get any questions yet? [22:36] *nodnod* ._. [22:37] ooh what what? [22:37] errrr... [22:37] lotsa things [22:37] main purpose of Magbou... [22:37] comin from me [22:37] uh... [22:37] whilst I play the game [22:37] lol [22:37] we talked about Vanillaware animation style too [22:37] and it was asked what was up with UP :) [22:38] that is one i wanna hear [22:38] last one? [22:38] i'll read it later [22:38] but i'm glad it was asked [22:38] yeah, log powah ^^ [22:38] now, to waste no time [22:38] * Hime is a bad person [22:38] huhu [22:38] Hime? ;__; [22:38] :) [22:39] Why such harsh words! [22:39] I know [22:39] Do you feel a need to include gameplay elements into your vns now, after the release of Magbou? (or did you feel that way before?) [22:39] it just hit me that this is very similar to "friend's" technique http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/test1.jpg [22:39] I discovered it by accident [22:39] I'm awesome! [22:39] Mmmmmm.... *thinks* [22:39] I just had to confess T_T [22:39] I totally loathe myself because of this, uu [22:40] Hime : yeah but now we have to ask : because of what? ^^; [22:40] what unspeakable act didst though commit? [22:40] drakey : I still do, yes. [22:41] Monele, I've reduced to drawing something ero-ish [22:41] One goal I haven't left behind is to try and bring something original to the table with each project [22:41] Hime: what's wrong with that? Aside from the fact that you're a few years below the legal age to even be seeing something ero :P [22:41] Hime.......... I hope you don't expect punishment for that ^_^; [22:41] ahahaha! [22:42] And why 'reduced'? ^^;... was it not on your own accord? [22:42] was it for moneh? [22:42] perhaps she realized she's actually fairly good at it...? [22:42] xD [22:43] gasp, le choc :) [22:43] If used responsibly, it's a cool talent to have ^^ [22:44] drakey : I actually did only one project without much gameplay : Utsukushii Planet [22:44] the most VN of my projects [22:45] all others were either hybrids or tried to push the game elements of VN choices [22:45] ...waah.. [22:45] ^^; [22:45] then again, cloud [22:45] I think you can buy **** at the age of 15 here [22:45] **** magazines, that is [22:45] well, that's half the reason I'm curious if Magbou changed things [22:45] No DVDs but magazines [22:45] meep [22:45] because I do remember UP just having a mess of choices [22:45] where do you live again? [22:45] ...random information that I happen to know, uh, just because it might come off weird :D [22:45] Finland [22:45] oh... eh, northern countries :) [22:46] but you still seem shocked ^^; [22:47] drakey : lessee..... MagBou did make me sick of complex gameplay at first because I couldn't fix it [22:47] ..h..huh? [22:47] s..shocked? [22:47] xD [22:47] yes, s... shocked :) [22:47] and yeah, north indeed [22:47] we've got loooots of now outside right now [22:48] Like... 20 cm [22:48] wow [22:48] at least [22:48] here we only got 4cm or so this weekend ^^ [22:48] and everyone is all "ZOMG!" [22:48] yeah... we're pussies ^^; [22:48] hmm... I remember someone else using a more polished version of this cg technique... [22:48] yuirei... [22:48] yeah, I think it was that person [22:49] drakey : (continuing) but then I fell into the trap again with Wood Witch which was growing into a full blown tabletop RPG turned videogame ^^; [22:49] drakey : but it didn't go well >.>.... too complex again. [22:50] drakey : and for my current project, I'm back to something more sensible, just trying to bring gamebooks and VNs together [22:50] drakey : and also bringing challenge! [22:51] what is it do you think gameplay brings to a story? or do you consider it a separate part of a cohesive whole that is the finished game? [22:51] :D [22:52] I'm not sure..... For one, I like "what ifs"... but most VNs can do that. Then, I guess I like the sense of progression and challenge you get from games [22:52] though I don't like competition (which is why I barely play multiplayer, except for Left 4 Dead which is true co-op) [22:53] and more simply, because I like RPGs, adventure games, strategy, etc... and I just love the idea of making a game [22:53] Could also come from the fact I try to compensate my lack of writing skills >.> [22:53] hahaha, at least you're being honest [22:53] :3 [22:54] acube! [22:54] nao! [22:54] nuh! [22:54] kweshtshuns! [22:54] do you think other creators should try to incorporate gameplay elements? [22:54] good one [22:54] :) [22:55] *shrugs*. I don't really care honestly. I don't think forcing people to do something they don't like is a good thing. [22:55] So I wouldn't force someone who likes to make regular VNs to add gameplay [22:55] But if there are people out there who are interested in gameplay but hold back because of what VNs are supposed to be [22:55] then, yeah, I'd like these people to try and break the mold [22:56] It's just fun to see new stuff [22:56] new ideas and such [22:56] I'm sure there's a whole lot to do with Ren'Py, and maybe even within VNs [22:57] let's say we had a talented writer who also knew how to program, and he wants to make a vn with gameplay elements [22:57] lol [22:57] hohoho! Where's that kikman? http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/solangel.jpg [22:57] but in order to add those gameplay elements, he'd have to scrimp on the story a bit... should he? [22:57] ah... [22:57] tough question [22:57] i know, hahaha [22:57] no [22:57] does it have to be exclusive though? ^^; [22:58] :) [22:58] in this hypothetical, let's say yes [22:58] well then it's an impossible question for me [22:59] maybe if he was *very* good at stories, then he could make something a step away from a masterpiece and.... yeah no... that'd be sad [22:59] if that's how you feel, you don't have to answer completely [22:59] I'll say I refuse to stay stuck in the question's context and say : he should get someone to help ^^ [22:59] I often ask questions even I couldn't answer [23:00] what is your idea of a perfect VN? [23:00] >) [23:00] because a good story should be a good story... but if it's a good story that can work with gameplay, then it's a shame to pick one and not the other [23:00] bad question lord, bad! :P [23:00] no, it's very goood [23:00] (ie : hard) [23:01] blame drakey [23:01] first, how do you define VN? [23:01] so I know what limits I have [23:01] the question entered my mind as soon as I saw him talking about asking questions he couldn't answer [23:01] xDD [23:01] *shakes fist* [23:01] hahahahaha [23:01] A VN is a VN in its commonly understood usage. [23:02] Can it have extensive gameplay? :) [23:02] A game mostly driven by text and some choices and perhaps limited gameplay elements [23:02] etc. [23:02] (I really think the limit of the VN genre is not yet well defined) [23:02] can't it have many choices? [23:02] who needs definitions? [23:02] I think you should at least say it's story-centric [23:02] would it stop being a VN? [23:03] (oh we're back to ye olde debate :3) [23:03] (*cackles*) [23:03] just answer the question [23:03] just answer mine :3 [23:03] I'm wise to straw man tactics [23:03] I use em too [23:03] no but I'm seriously wondering because I could go crazy if not limited [23:03] saw right through you, didn't I? [23:04] but hey, let me try and tell me if I go out of VN territory [23:04] While not restricted to VN, I'll say that it'll first need to have a good story [23:04] jez fyn. Everything will be construed in favor of VN permissiveness [23:04] this being totally subjective of course [23:05] what *I* like, usually, is something that I could play/read through again, with about 6 months to X years in between, and still enjoy it a lot [23:05] I also like games/stories that leave a mark [23:06] The kind of experiences you'll remember fondly, even when they don't age well [23:06] memories of a time that slipped awaaaay [23:06] yeah, some such :) [23:07] blue star aboooove me [23:07] lolz [23:07] oh there he goes ^^; [23:07] take his mic! :) [23:07] anyway, I don't even know if I should add any gameplay element to this answer [23:08] so, the perfect VN doesn't need gameplay? [23:08] I truely wouldn't mind if it was just a story VN with a few choices [23:08] because it's can be good as it is [23:08] BUT [23:08] shikashi [23:08] sou :) [23:08] If you can have added gameplay with a really nice story (or mood/setting), then it might make for another perfect kind of game for me [23:09] game/VN [23:09] I see, so there are categories [23:09] pure VN [23:09] myeah :) [23:09] and game VN [23:09] I guess that's how it is in my mind [23:09] I appreciate both [23:09] I also appreciate pure game [23:09] (outside of the VN genre) [23:10] but I guess I'm always looking for the right mix [23:10] since story-only things always make me wish I could play them [23:10] and game-only things always make me wish they'd have cool stories [23:10] ^^; [23:10] * Kik|Meeting is now known as Kik|Work [23:10] Kik: progress! http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/solangel.jpg [23:10] The best is when you have as much fun discovering a story and as much fun playing along [23:11] I don't even think having the two totally entertwined is *that* important to me right now (though it's a plus) [23:11] Approval! [23:11] and by that, I mean that RPGs are cool [23:11] even if their mechanics are often way removed from what the story is about [23:11] this is my pseudo-friend technique [23:11] You mentioned about games leaving a mark earlier [23:11] as accidentally discovered just a few minute ago [23:11] Is there any OELVNs out there that have done this to you? [23:12] mmm.... [23:12] right to the point [23:12] lol [23:12] You know what answer you'll get, drake. ;P [23:12] * lordcloudx applies pressure [23:12] to a point yes. There are a few examples that just pop in my mind whenever I think "VN" [23:12] Elven Relations is one of them [23:12] Starlit Skies too (I hope I didn't get the title wrong) [23:13] close enough [23:13] Ori Ochi Onoe too, though I have beefs against it :) [23:13] which are? [23:13] harsh gameplay ;) [23:13] yeah [23:13] but that's mikey :) [23:14] any other vns? [23:14] umm... what else... [23:14] I might be forgetting some important ones [23:14] (you can also spread this out to vns at large now, not just oels) [23:14] oh...... mm..... [23:14] *thinks* [23:14] xD [23:14] for some reason, nothing comes to mind... except Phoenix Wright series if I'm allowed :) [23:15] absolutely! [23:15] then PW all the way :) [23:15] it is an amazing series [23:15] (1 2 3 only) [23:15] haven't played Apollo yet? [23:15] I did but I stopped ^^;... [23:15] oh? why's that? [23:16] Two things : "not the same" (though I can't properly explain) and because, in the second case, I kept picking clues with an hypothesis..... and being right..... but not about the hypothesis XD [23:16] it frustrated me *so* much [23:16] it's not terrible [23:17] I'd put it about PW2, but that's not really an accomplishment [23:17] *above [23:17] but I want to understand things! ^^; [23:17] oh yeah [23:17] the first and last case are the highlights though [23:17] yeah, first was great [23:17] AJ's last case is pretty damn good, but a bit anti-climatic [23:17] (oh wait, I'm silly, it's the third case I stopped at;.. concert thing) [23:18] anyway :) [23:18] lemme check our oelvn list [23:18] just one more sidetracked question [23:18] if you had to pick one, which is your favorite case throughout the whole series? [23:18] oh yeah! my level of aptitude has increased [23:18] moar samu pwnage to add to my portfolio [23:19] oh, I forgot ... err... what was the name... this VN I've been all supportive about? XD... eek! [23:19] tsukihime? >) [23:19] favourite case... maybe PW3's first, because it's the first one I played and it's the beginning of the best saga evah :D [23:19] lord : :333333333333 [23:19] my lips are mooltiplied! [23:19] ^^; [23:19] oh speaking of PW3's first case [23:19] do you still have that renpy demo? [23:20] Kikered has to play it! [23:20] still do :) [23:20] xD [23:20] who needs a ren'py demo? [23:20] he does? :) [23:20] just download the entire game [23:20] absolutely! [23:20] lord : nuh! [23:20] :) [23:20] respect the PW >( [23:20] well, Kikered has this thing called morals that get in the way [23:20] he does? [23:20] *pats the morals* [23:20] in most cases [23:20] :) [23:20] xDD [23:20] ^^; [23:20] morals can be swayed at times ^^; [23:21] so, Kik, feeling like slamming on a table and yelling "OBJECTION!" ? :) [23:21] But Kikered absolutely has to play it! [23:21] I never let morals get in the way of my having fun [23:21] lord : a sensible point :) [23:22] take my psp for example [23:22] have downloaded oooover a hundred games [23:22] yet [23:22] a umd shall never touch the tray [23:22] I wouldn't mind giving the PW demo a shot. ^^; [23:23] you don't have a choice in the matter! [23:23] you'll play it and LIKE it! [23:23] ^^; [23:23] (oh, I forgot Kikuit! :D... kinda one of the first I played ^^...) [23:23] lol [23:23] I'll prepare a package for you then ^^ [23:24] how shall I send it? [23:24] 13.3mb [23:24] the full game is 12.7 mb zipped, btw >) [23:25] hehe [23:25] I am temptation [23:25] *twats* :P [23:25] runs great on any current emu [23:25] monele: if you could upload it somewhere and email it to kikered at yahoo.com, that'd be great. ^^ [23:25] ds emulators suck, flash carts are where it's at [23:25] it didn't at the time *cough* [23:26] Kik : I was thinking of using some file sharing website because I don't think I'll be able to host that :) [23:26] cloud: unfortunately for you, I am temperance. >) [23:26] drakey : mm... yeah... didn't have that at the time either ^^; [23:26] ah, yes flash carts. Now if I only had the system to use em with :P [23:26] If you post the link here, Moni, I'll keep it for Kik till he gets home [23:26] lord : see, you failed with PSP... you actually bought the system :P [23:26] drakey : you won't keep it for yourself? sure? :) [23:27] oh, he's gonna play it whether i have to force him to or not [23:27] He has the originals, I wager. ^^; [23:27] that too [23:28] oh, btw, win/linux/mac? [23:28] xD [23:28] I've got windows, but the cross-platform package should suffice. =3 [23:29] I has excellent games for teh psp [23:29] there's no such thing, so windows it is ;) [23:29] and lots more expected to be released [23:29] also, I've played the PW [23:29] lolz [23:29] 0820 - Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney - Justice For All (US).nds [23:29] it's better to brag about buying games you know? :) [23:29] ahahaha! [23:30] it's all the same [23:30] it's just a moralistic high horse [23:30] same thing that brought about the downfall of teh great visualnews.net [23:30] lolololol [23:30] mmm... not really. There's still money involved. Or lack of money in your case :) [23:30] I like my high horse, thank you. It sure beats walking... [23:30] eheh ^^ [23:31] that aside [23:31] lemme spell out the difference for ya [23:31] 'sides, it's extra movement points when outdoors! [23:31] between pirated and original [23:31] in my territory [23:31] and you can charge [23:31] and it gives bonuses against footed enemies [23:31] 50 pesos = 1 USD [23:31] 1 pirated ps2 cd = 70 pesos [23:31] 1 original ps2 dvd = 4000 pesos [23:32] Those anti-mount weapons sure hurt a lot though x.x [23:32] mm... kinda expensive [23:32] minimum wage = 5000 pesos [23:32] average income of professionals = 20,000 pesos [23:32] ok, *very* expensive ^^; [23:33] thus, I support piracy! [23:33] * lordcloudx puts up teh jolly roger [23:33] whoo hoo! [23:33] mah, I'm the last one to moralize about this anyway [23:34] well, I'll be taking the trash out, so if you have any questions... prepare in the meantime :) [23:34] hee hee [23:34] even the shops here expect the ps2s to be used for piracy [23:34] they come already modded [23:34] so did my psp [23:34] came with custom firmware [23:35] I just had to upgrade it to the latest cfw [23:36] ahihihihi! [23:36] ^^; [23:36] I'm enjoying my R4 myself [23:37] helps me play games i wouldn't wanna waste money on the high price tag for [23:37] like Time Hollow, which was good, but not $30 good [23:37] :D [23:40] Delayed gratification usually means you spend less on games. =3 [23:41] man, I got so sidetracked with this pw business, i think i ran out of momentum for my questioning [23:41] continue [23:41] you were pushing about this gameplay thing [23:41] i know, but i think that's much of what i wanted to say [23:43] What is your greatest strength (in your own opinion) as a developer? [23:43] then I suppose we should also ask for his weakness? [23:44] he already admitted it [23:44] in case we have to put him in his place... err, i mean... [23:44] Phoenix 0.3 : http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0kjjddjueyj [23:44] did he? [23:44] the writing part [23:45] Strength?... I don't know if it's a strength but my will to try new stuff. [23:45] If only it was backed up with motivation >.>... [23:45] what motivates you? :D [23:46] not much XD [23:46] that's the problem :) [23:46] I work in bursts [23:46] and I have a cyclicly (?) changing themed-mood [23:47] (Rough interrogation here. Mine was relatively tame in comparison. XD ) [23:47] we're getting better with experience, kik [23:47] What do you think the greatest block on finishing a project is for you, and how did you overcome it for Magbou? [23:47] in other words, I'll like sci-fi for a month, then I'll like fantasy, then I'll like quiet games, then I'll like fighting games, then I'll... [23:47] and it goes back and starts again [23:47] lol! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRiqXYLiB_E [23:47] skip to 6:00 [23:47] ZnT season 3 just gained multiple points of win with that scene [23:48] drakey : the biggest block is usually time and dwindling motivation [23:48] I didn't overcome it for MagBou as much as turned around it and poke it in the back thanks to DaFool [23:48] ... ^^; [23:49] I heard Beatrice in that video [23:49] I think I just need a good kick in the ass from time to time [23:50] Does the name make you cring in fear? =D [23:50] would you say you need something like a project leader to help you with your projects? [23:50] *witch rage, boiling to extreme temperatures* [23:51] Louise must be on crack [23:51] BEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~~~ [23:52] lord : mmmmm....... nah. I don't think that'd help. I'd just get pissed at being pushed to do things (yeah, I know, contradiction :3) [23:52] Don't team up with enerccio then. ;) [23:52] xD [23:52] xDDDDD [23:52] double take there XD [23:52] seriously ._. [23:52] but yeah, I think I know what you mean ^^ [23:52] hey, I play L4D with him and he has a *mike* [23:52] how bout someone like mikey? [23:53] Wouldn't work with mikey since we have diverging opinions on design l) [23:53] who just politely reminds you every now and then [23:53] He sounds like the type of guy who can make you feel bad about not getting things done. ;P [23:53] oh, just pushing forward? Well... might work yeah [23:53] Subtly [23:53] =3 [23:53] haha, yeah XDDD [23:53] I'm sure he does that in real life too :) [23:54] he'll look at you, say nothing... have some kind of subtle puppy face [23:54] hehe, you should see him chat on irc [23:54] and you'll be all "ALL RIGHT ALL RIGHT! ;_;" [23:54] he writes entire essays in one post [23:54] who now, mikey or Ennercio? [23:54] mikey [23:54] oh :) [23:54] Enerccio: This is awesome game! [23:54] Enerccio: Acube sux [23:54] you just won a thousand points for missing the article in that first line [23:54] Enerccio: lol! Let's talk about pron [23:55] lol [23:55] drakey: intentionally, of courswe [23:55] naturally [23:55] but that's why you win [23:55] XD [23:55] I've seen Enerccio do it lotsa times [23:55] I've given him online English drills just on that [23:55] he still doesn't have it down [23:55] xDDD [23:55] Ouch ^^; [23:56] he's pretty good at talking though it seems [23:56] it's part of his individuality! [23:56] but then I'm French, what do I know ^^; [23:56] :3 [23:56] 4 minutes left [23:56] lol, that's a bit better than Ren's "I'm stupid, so I don't know." [23:56] tick tack [23:57] do you think you'll leave the scene anytime? [23:57] What a coincidence. I only have 4 minutes left, too. ;P [23:57] my time was up looong ago [23:57] *the oelvn scene that is [23:57] *shrugs*. This question makes me wonder if I've ever *really* been in the scene. As I've almost always tried to make something other than a VN ;) [23:58] I am now in danger of hypertension, blood loss and assorted ailments due to lack of sleep [23:58] well, you're very much a part of the community [23:58] but considering I am, right now, then no, I don't think I will. Many things left to try first ^^ [23:59] community, I conceive, yes, but I distinguish it from the VN scene at large :) [23:59] Ohhhhh Nikke's "Hey!" song :3 Session Close: Tue Nov 25 00:00:00 2008 Session Start: Tue Nov 25 00:00:00 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [00:00] * Monele listens and imagine Nikke dancing [00:00] (*listening to Mana Khemia soundtrack*) [00:00] ahhh [00:00] I'll have to play that game sometime [00:00] Pamela <3 [00:00] soon as I'm done fighting ghosts with a camera [00:00] haha ^^ [00:00] Kuma-san! [00:01] * Quits: Kik|Work (n=kikered@nat/microsoft/x-bab08a40887b0e80) ("work's done!") [00:01] I'll just wait for the PSP port [00:01] here's one [00:01] okay, extending time to 10 mins ^^; [00:01] because it's fun :) [00:01] where do you see the community heading for in about say... 2-3 years? [00:02] mmm... hard to say [00:02] lessee [00:03] I think it'll depend on the evolution of mentalities. If people really try to go for HQ and stuff, clearly, there'll be a full split. [00:03] Not sure it's good or bad... maybe people will be able to focus on their stuff at least, without bickering on who's right [00:03] :) [00:03] though *some* might still be all high and mighty about their side :/ [00:04] i vote for less pointless shouting [00:04] but assuming it was just a meaningless storm [00:04] then, I'm really not sure [00:04] there's clearly stagnation [00:04] interesting [00:04] which is scary for me since I want innovation along with classics [00:05] according to mikey, VN development is progressing the same way it always has [00:05] There might be a bunch of really good games in the making, and maybe it'll just be a burst of good stuff and all will be good again [00:05] yeah? [00:05] it might be. Maybe it's just perception. I haven't checked stats or anything to conclude things [00:05] It just *feels* slow and uneventful [00:05] yes, there've always been these epic projects in the making [00:06] and the little games being steadily released [00:06] or maybe I'm err... jadded? [00:06] etc. etc. [00:06] *jaded [00:06] not at all [00:06] that's a common opinion around these parts [00:06] I mean, every new game was really shiny and new before [00:06] pytom ducked out because of it [00:06] oh, true [00:06] but now, even a good game seems old and unfresh [00:07] *makes up new words* [00:07] we do not like the direction the community is apparently heading for [00:07] unfresh = stale? [00:07] yeah, thanks ^^ [00:07] Can I haz dictionary nao? :D [00:07] dictionary != thesaurus [00:07] ;3; [00:08] lord : as I've said, it might be just part of the community [00:08] a dictionary would only tell you that unfresh isn't a word [00:08] xD [00:08] Is it? [00:08] i'm being a smartass [00:08] mmm... I hope? :) [00:08] drakey : more or less noticed ;p [00:08] seems like the "artists" are slowly taking over [00:08] and i enjoy it [00:08] drakey : bis ;) [00:08] lord : mmmm.... [00:09] they're trying maybe [00:09] look at the structure of the boards now [00:09] There's one thing in common : they want things to evolve... and we kinda want that too? [00:09] we just don't have the same method :) [00:09] it favors them heavily [00:09] why not? [00:09] they're a precious resource [00:09] everyone and their mother can take a crack at writing [00:10] drakey : not everyone can succeed [00:10] no [00:10] but sometimes it takes a while for you to realize writing is crap [00:10] art you can tell near instantly [00:10] yeah... :) [00:10] bet I could fool tommy with my Solangel fanart [00:10] into thinking that it wasn't drawn by me >) [00:10] Art is instant while writing is lasting;.. mmm... interesting [00:11] wip thread [00:11] lolz [00:11] lol ^^; [00:11] it's true [00:11] artists get stroked just for posting in the dumpage thread [00:11] good thing Ren isn't here [00:11] writers don't get that attention [00:11] she might not agree with ya [00:11] whom? [00:11] drakey [00:11] mm... why so? [00:11] perhaps in this instance [00:11] Anywayz, there are some artists who are just natually talented [00:12] but she knows how much I appreciate the artists part of the work [00:12] and who can draw well with very little effort [00:12] I'd like to note that I consider writers artists, personally [00:12] sure, but artists in this sense, refers to visual artists [00:13] I consider writing an art, myself [00:13] yeah. Well, let's just say that some writers are also naturally talented :) [00:13] writers do produce "art" but not pictures [00:13] and some people work hard [00:13] sure [00:13] same result, not the same process [00:13] but since a writer's art isn't visual [00:13] not the same patience from the people [00:13] they get less attention than one kick-ass pic [00:13] the audience [00:14] again, visual is instant [00:14] "a picture is worth a thousand words", right? :) [00:14] there's a dueling proverb to that [00:14] I'm a visual peson myself, so I can't blame people [00:14] yeah I know ;p [00:14] shh :P [00:14] I mean, I rarely read texts [00:14] I tried picture-less betas and just couldn't go through them [00:15] how bout sparse pictures? [00:15] and yet, I read some books [00:15] Radical Dreamers snes comes to mind [00:15] sparse pictures... could work I guess [00:15] but I either need a very quick hook in full text (and good writing for stamina), or something visual to support me [00:15] an example from today : [00:16] I started reading an old gamebook I had [00:16] and it started describing the place my character was going to by saying stuff like "there's a jungle spread in the northern area, with a canyon going southeastward" [00:16] and blah blah blah [00:17] my eyes almost skipped the entire thing [00:17] heh, I'm not really a big fan of this "hook" thing. [00:17] it tried to describe a map to me instead of a cool scenery ^^; [00:17] lord : well I need it :3 [00:17] remember the story you told me to read? [00:17] (*still shaking fist at author*) [00:17] Calling YOu [00:17] yeah. Well I really wasn't hot on reading at first [00:17] one of the best short stories I've read for some time [00:17] but the first few lines were just well written [00:18] I wanted to know more [00:18] The character was instantly quirky and charming [00:18] of course it helped that I recognized myself in her too [00:18] and just that was enough for me to go through the whole thing [00:18] well there you go [00:18] of course, the rest of the story helped because it was original and heart warming [00:18] (at first ._. ) [00:18] how do you go about making writing as appealing as visuals! [00:18] hehe [00:19] but you needed a lordcloudx to prod you into reading it [00:19] yeah [00:19] that's the main problem for writers, I guess [00:19] Either the story has an original theme that makes me think "I want to know how this goes!" or have a few lines that do the same [00:19] You need someone to pay attention long enough [00:19] I think you have to think in terms of checkpoints [00:19] and that the first few lines are the most important [00:20] I actually heard that a lot about writing [00:20] first few lines, eh? [00:20] your first lines should be terribly intriguing [00:20] I never really give that much thought when writing [00:20] I don't have an example in mind, but I know there was a book which started with something peculiar [00:20] oh yeah, something like this : [00:20] I am dead. [00:20] Bam, first paragraph [00:20] Of course you'll be intruiged [00:21] who's dead? why? Why can he still relate a story? [00:21] is it a ghost? [00:21] is it some sort of American Beauty thing? [00:21] etc... [00:21] But you can have other such things like in vitae beginnings [00:22] "They're catching up!" The shadows were gaining on us. Sarah was running alongside me but I knew she was getting tired... [00:23] Might not be terriby original, but since you don't know much, it's still intriguing (I think/hope this is a quick example XD) [00:23] interestingly enough, I heard a lecture about opening lines in some conference I attended years ago [00:23] *since this is [00:23] I totally disagreed with the lecturer [00:23] Thus, I wrote Hikari's Ribbon [00:23] opening line: Once upon a time. [00:23] haha ^^ [00:23] but some of the things with slow starts are the most charming and endearing [00:24] yeah. I was about to say that it's also a matter of taste [00:24] I might enjoy something with a slow start too. It's just that I might need someone to tell me "hey, read this, it's good!" [00:24] :) [00:24] That way, my patience will be higher and I'll last a chapter before giving up if nothing caught my attention [00:25] Kinda like animes actually [00:25] Kino's Journey is good [00:25] even the big action ones don't always start big [00:25] but usually, you have some sort of cool scene at the end that makes you go "ohhhh, I want to see how it plays out :D" [00:25] and the ones that start big are usually crap [00:25] Devil May Cry [00:25] never seen [00:25] don't bother [00:25] lol :) [00:26] I remember it looked very pretty, that's all :) [00:26] the animation is impressive [00:26] that is all [00:27] ok, then. How do you write your stories? [00:27] :) [00:27] lol [00:27] badly :p [00:27] bah [00:27] that's not what I was asking and you know it [00:27] nah, well, as I said, I tried multiple things [00:28] and while trying said multiple endings [00:28] did you have an outline planned? [00:28] my first project was Asylium and I started with character designs, trying to find very unique stuff àla Guilty Gear [00:28] From there, I imagined powers and then also behaviors and a bit of background stories [00:28] character design, eh [00:28] not a big fan of that method [00:29] it grew from there but was, not so surprisingly, very character centered, and had no main theme (or not a good one at least) [00:29] I still love it (it's my life-time project ^^) but it needs an overhaul :) [00:29] Then, I tried this character thing again with Kittease where I designed the whole cast in... two drawings [00:29] of course, shallow characters ensued ^^; [00:30] and the main story was kinda tacked on based on one character [00:30] Then Utsukushii Planet where I thought "let's write" and I did. [00:30] my own stories usually start from a scene, a dialogue, or even just a single line that I want to see/happen [00:30] I think it went well considering how spontaneous it was... but I got stuck early [00:30] well yeah, I tend to do that too ^^; [00:30] but it's freaking hard to build around such a thing [00:31] And then MagBou... which started from the theme/mood [00:31] I had played a Neverwinter Nights module where you took care of your uncle's magic shop while he went away [00:31] you had to do some sort of recipe quest in it for a rushed client [00:31] *hurried? [00:32] rush [00:32] that was it... it was fun and I really wanted to push the idea further [00:32] will do [00:32] (a rush client? ô_o) [00:32] Not sure how I came up with the characters... but they weren't the starting point this tie [00:32] *time [00:33] and finally current project which started from the gameplay element and went from there. So the characters and story will support the game concept [00:33] but I have a writer on board, so it's going to help ^^ [00:33] (a lot!) [00:33] but it's your story? [00:34] mmm... yes and no with a leaning towards no [00:34] hmm... I don't think I could stand that. Having someone else write my story for me [00:34] It just wouldn't feel right [00:34] I came up with the concept, I'm directing towards a specific mood, I suggested a base of character archetypes... [00:34] the rest is up to the writer and he's doing such a great job that I don't feel like meddling too much ^^ [00:34] interesting approach [00:35] Well I didn't like the idea for MagBou, because I created the characters already [00:35] almost like a professional [00:35] but this time I only imagined vague character concepts [00:35] game design studios, etc. [00:35] there is *one* character I detailed a lot, though ... [00:35] and of course, I'm keen on seeing this one staying as close to my vision as possible :) [00:35] who is it? this writer? [00:35] seekret! :3 [00:36] I don't know if he wants to be revealed [00:36] (yeah, hint, oh well) [00:36] he'll never know [00:36] but i will :P [00:36] ;) [00:36] hmmm~ [00:36] anyway, I was kinda scared at first, but the first drafts he sent me for the setting and characters just blew me away [00:37] he went with the exact things I expected, while surprising me with new ideas [00:37] Oh no! It's bloodywyvern! [00:37] can't be better than that :) [00:37] :P [00:37] I'm not telling, sir :P [00:37] Of course, now my job is to make sure I come up with a good gameplay [00:37] I might leave art to someone else, too [00:38] i'm intrigued now [00:38] if only because I think it deserves more thanwhat I can do [00:38] drakey : more or less the goal X3 [00:39] hah! Well, I'm spent [00:39] and sleepy [00:39] gtg [00:39] later, ppl [00:39] * Quits: lordcloudx (n=lordclou@acl1-730bts.gw.smartbro.net) ("puru puru rin") [00:39] lol [00:39] that was quick :) [00:39] but I should probably follow ^^;... way over 10 minutes [00:39] 'night moni [00:39] gonna be like sh*t again tomorrow ^^; [00:40] good night :). T'was all fun :) [00:40] how long do these topics stay on btw? ^^; [00:41] All depending on the whims of the mainainer(s) [00:42] drat the mainainers! [00:42] but okay :) [00:42] well good night for real then ^^ [00:42] bai~ [00:43] * Disconnected Session Close: Tue Nov 25 00:43:02 2008 Session Start: Tue Nov 25 18:54:57 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [18:54] * Now talking in #baka-trio [18:54] * Topic is 'Anthology Project: http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm -- Topic - Let's discuss/explain our stories! Target: Moni!' [18:54] * Set by drakey on Sun Nov 23 02:31:48 [18:54] -ChanServ- [#baka-trio] Welcome to #baka-trio. The Visual Novel developer's skill workshop channel. http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm #baka-trio url is http://real-life.animerd2k2.net [18:54] Interesting =3 [18:55] nyo [18:55] here he is [18:55] the target [18:55] =3 [18:55] You know, it always feels safe when you say that [18:55] unfortunately, time for lunch [18:55] bbl! [18:55] * Kik|Work is now known as Kik|Lunch [18:55] bai ^^; [18:55] haha [18:55] right... I was rambling on about philosophy and law [18:55] meep [18:55] and this one awesome case [18:56] where justice prevailed over the law [18:56] ah ô_o [18:57] interested? [18:57] I'd also like to know your opinion about it, anywayz [18:58] well I like justice, so yeah, I'm curious now [18:58] right... [18:58] I shall begin [18:58] There was this 12 year old girl from an impoverished family. A foreigner kidnapped and raped her repeatedly for about... a week [18:58] (this is an actual case, btw) [18:59] (yeah, I unfortunately thought so) [18:59] before some locals found his hiding place and thankfully, the girl was still alive. [19:00] In this type of case separate actions for the Criminal and Civl aspect may proceed independently [19:00] In this type of case separate actions for the Criminal and Civl aspect may proceed independently [19:00] whoops [19:00] no question, he was convicted for the criminal charges and sentenced to death [19:00] however, in the Civil Aspect for recovery of damages... [19:00] his account in Philippin currency wasn't enough to cover the damages [19:01] he had a huge-ass foreign account within the custody of Philippine Banks [19:01] problem is, Insurance law says that foreign currency is exempt from attachment [19:01] and this... [19:01] was the golden moment of our justice system [19:01] The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that recovery of damages must be allowed. [19:01] In this particular case and only in this case. [19:01] The law was promulgated for a reason [19:01] and this reason does not include circumventing the demands of justice [19:02] Thus, even if the law says that attachment is prohibited, considering the cruelty of the defendant's offense, recovery was allowed [19:02] justice prevailed over the law [19:02] the best part was that the law was actually set aside [19:02] in favor of the more humane decision [19:02] end [19:02] whad'ja think? [19:02] It's..... intriguing. [19:03] If we consider this particular case and only this case (like the court did ^^), then it's hard to say that it's a bad thing. [19:03] Of course the guy didn't deserve any sort of law-based protection [19:03] yup [19:04] it was stated that way [19:04] to prevent the ruling from being used in other cases [19:04] But I'm less that it would be good to apply to everything [19:04] *less sure [19:04] it can't be used [19:04] because of that one line [19:04] Yeah yeah, but... [19:04] this was a special consideration [19:05] maybe I'm misinterpreting or seeing way further than you want me to :) [19:05] not really [19:05] what I'm thinking is : if the Court is allowed to do such things [19:05] tell me what you see further [19:05] what prevents it from overuling itself in any other case? [19:05] Ah, yes. Judicicial Legislation [19:05] Not all cases, sure, but another case [19:05] and that this time, it's a bad ruling [19:05] not only have I/we seen through that [19:05] we have a term for it [19:06] based on the same concept of "because we think it's better that way" [19:06] ah! [19:06] but y'see [19:06] yawn [19:06] xD [19:06] I mentioned unanimous decision [19:06] because it took all eight justices of the supreme court en banc to concur with that one decision [19:06] well an unanimous decision of a bunch of retard is still an unanimously bad decision :P So there's a risk [19:07] Heh, at least 40 years of practice of law [19:07] (not saying this Court is retarted, but what if it was... at some point?) [19:07] (like all corrupted and stuff?) [19:07] that's the minimum requirement for becoming a justice [19:07] they're old, but not retarded [19:07] 40 years of bad practice is still bad practice too ;p [19:07] heh, sure [19:07] I mean there's no guarantee in the end [19:07] but can you say that for each individual justice? [19:08] there is no guarantee for anything in a democracy [19:08] eternal vigilance, that is the price of freedom [19:08] btw, what's a "justice" for you?... a type of person? ô_o [19:08] remembah? [19:08] No [19:08] Moral justice [19:08] what I believe to be right and jus [19:08] just [19:08] "to become a justice" <-... what's "a justice" then? :) [19:09] oh [19:09] that [19:09] yeah, that :p [19:09] typo? [19:09] A justice=judge [19:09] ok :) [19:09] nope [19:09] that's the term we use [19:09] all right, thought so :) [19:09] judges for lower courts [19:09] Justices for the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court [19:10] Yong jyuu hachi no satsujin waza no hitosu! [19:10] http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/file/Sun19.jpg [19:10] Sun beaaaaamu~ :D [19:11] fyi: It's not easy to make a decision like that [19:11] the justices don't act like some sort of hive mind, after all [19:11] http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/file/19.png [19:11] they come from all over the country [19:11] That is one heck of a quote though. [19:12] what does it mean btw? ^^; [19:12] I can make out parts of it but... [19:12] yon jyuu hachi is a number [19:12] that much I got [19:12] satsujin = criminal [19:12] hitotsu = alone/one [19:12] killer [19:12] but I can't combine it all in to a sentence [19:12] of the the 48 killing moves [19:12] waza = move [19:12] oh [19:13] one of* [19:13] all right :) [19:13] *tempted* [19:13] .... >.>.... <.<..... [19:13] one of the 48 assasssin's killing moves? [19:13] wazaaaa~ [19:13] or something like that [19:13] yeah. makes sense :) [19:14] btw, since jurisprudence becomes a part of our laws [19:14] jurisprudence = decided cases [19:14] Interesting : http://mayshing.deviantart.com/journal/21661078/ [19:14] that one particular case is excluded from jurisprudence [19:14] I know what it means, we have that too :) [19:15] I'm not sure I even like the concept of jurisprudence [19:15] It's like, just because there was this one case where something was decided (by a single group of people), every other similar case should be judged the same [19:15] It's weird [19:16] true, I don't like it too [19:16] so if a good decision is made... cool [19:16] thankfully, jurisprudence can be overturned [19:16] but if the initial group made a stupid blunder, everyone else will follow? neat :/ [19:16] nope [19:16] yeah, that's a good thing ^^; [19:16] to quote my teacher in statcon [19:17] What the supreme court said in the previous case is important [19:17] what the supreme court said in the recent case is more important [19:17] :) [19:17] what the supreme court will say in your case is the only thing that really matters [19:17] I like that :) [19:17] the only importance of jurisprudence is in the study of law [19:18] you have to know how the supreme court currently interprets a particular controversy [19:18] because that's the controlling jurisprudence [19:18] and thus, is the right answer in the exams [19:19] if the supreme court overturned that cases today [19:19] case [19:19] then the new decision becomes controlling [19:19] the jurisprudence system is there because a law must be dynamic [19:19] ... mmm... [19:19] it needs to meet the demands of the times [19:19] and the particular situation [19:20] what was applicable in 1960 might not be applicable now [19:20] http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3102&p=60769#p60769 [19:20] btw, I got a perfect score in Legal Philosophy, thus, why I just love to ramble on about these things :P [19:20] There you go, hime. Sorry for the long wait [19:21] for example... [19:21] if we just had one particular interpretation for a certain law [19:21] all-encompassing, always applies [19:22] then our justice system would be robotic [19:22] yeah [19:22] this paves the way for absurd decisions [19:22] the jurisprudence system recognizes that the framers of the law were human [19:25] aaaw FIA [19:25] thank you <3 [19:25] I'm sorry for not making Marliene yet, douh T_T [19:25] Just been so busy [19:25] I want to make the card when I can really give it my best [19:26] Kikered said he wanted to ask you a few, Monele [19:26] And the extra is great too :D [19:29] lord : when he's back then :) [19:30] *goes to drawing* [19:47] y'know, Monele [19:47] much as I agree with that deviantart article [19:47] mm? [19:48] The 2nd part doesn't really apply to all hobbyists [19:48] I'll admit I skipped on that part [19:48] let me read again :) [19:48] "Love" is what makes great professionals. [19:48] yet... [19:48] not everyone is trying to be a great professional [19:48] certainly not me [19:49] well she's not saying everyone is and I'm not either :) [19:50] true [19:50] but while I don't agree with all her "pro" stuff, I think there's something about differenciating love and fun here [19:50] just stating that [19:50] of course [19:50] as in... It's true that we only accept a maximum amount of "pain"/effort [19:50] on that point, Mikey and I discussed a lot about the VN creation process [19:50] and if our threshold is low, then yeah, we're in the "fun" part [19:51] Personally, I want it to be fun [19:51] I can't say I'm in love with the medium then [19:51] for example [19:51] otherwise, I'd probably put more efforts into it and still come out happy [19:51] even if it gives you headaches [19:51] even if it tends to push you into suicidal tendencies [19:51] you still want to do it [19:51] because you just like to do it [19:52] I guess that could be closer to love [19:52] and yet, this "love" will not maigically produce any greater results than a more talented hobbyist [19:52] and that's why it's love [19:52] mm.... [19:52] interesting point [19:53] because you don't need anyone else's approval [19:53] you just like to do it [19:53] that's good enough [19:53] well [19:54] on one hand I think it's interesting that "love" might not show in extreme ways in the final product [19:54] that the love is felt by the artist as he creates and that the end result is not automatically a recipient of the love [19:55] I don't think that's the case [19:55] that the end result isn't a recipient of the love [19:55] of course it is [19:55] but on the other hand, there are many games and other works where you can feel that the author was totally in love with his project and put himself on the line to make it as cool as it could be [19:55] so I'm torn [19:55] that doesn't mean it always shows [19:55] in the eyes of others [19:56] mm... [19:56] it's hard to say for me [19:57] I agree that a work of love could still be lower quality than a work of "work" (labor) by someone with more experience/talent [19:57] but I wonder if love can really stay hidden [19:57] of course, not [19:57] it'll show [19:57] even if it doesn't look as good, I think you will feel it [19:57] it's just not obvious at first glance [19:57] and as such, you might even like the work of love better, because you can feel the love poured in it [19:58] it's the kind of thing you usually can't explain [19:58] excactly [19:58] for me, mikey's last work was a work of love [19:58] in spite of all its flaws, it felt good [19:58] for samu, it wasn't a good vn [19:58] see what I mean? [19:58] lol [19:58] He said it wasn't a good VN, but he didn't say it wasn't a good work [19:58] I don't think he dismissed it entirely [19:59] because moe boy judges by externalities >) [19:59] he said it just didn't try for what the complainers expected [19:59] hehehe [19:59] and that's what I think too [19:59] It's like looking at a girl who doesn't brush her hair, doesn't spend hours applying make-up, doesn't pick extremely hip clothes... [20:00] and yet, you can feel she's a good person? [20:00] she didn't try to appeal to the canon masses, but it doesn't mean she's bad at what she truely is [20:01] ;0 [20:01] :) [20:02] and to be sure [20:02] it doesn't mean that good art = no love or vice versa [20:04] then again, there are some VNs that are just hard to fathom [20:05] Cyber Troops [20:05] >) [20:05] I can't say that I felt no love in the way the game was presented [20:06] Mmm... I would say it was infatuation [20:06] And yet, in all aspects, it looks/feels like a child's doodles [20:06] the story makes no sense at all [20:06] well... it was passionate [20:06] just misdirected? [20:06] I've been there [20:07] "I want to make a cool game like XXX"! [20:07] haha [20:07] I think it was the main motivation [20:07] and as such, it feels random [20:08] I think you're right when comparing it to a child's doodle [20:08] it's done with the same passion [20:08] it just lacks the skills [20:09] as long as you can keep the childish passion intact and apply newly learned skills to it... [20:09] it can lead to great stuff [20:09] but many people fall into the trap of looking only at the acquired skills [20:09] they forget they were also a doodling child [20:09] and they lose their innocence in the process [20:10] interesting analogy [20:10] Said in another way : the skills should be the means to the passion [20:10] and never an end in itself [20:10] well put [20:11] and to add to taht [20:11] this passion [20:12] Is what's lacking in LSF nowadays, I believe [20:12] or it just doesn't show [20:13] This screenshot contest thing just isn't healthy [20:14] It just caters to the artists [20:14] visual artists, of course [20:15] mm... yeah. [20:15] yes and no actually [20:15] I don't think it's a *bad* thing [20:16] if it can promote renewed interfaces, it's a good thing [20:16] if it pushes some people to make cool art, why not [20:16] if people do it to "win", then I'm less thrilled [20:16] and also, it lacks counterparts for story, gameplay and general innovations [20:16] (it's mah keyword :3) [20:17] * Kik|Lunch is now known as Kik|Work [20:17] that's just it [20:17] it doesn't push ppl to make cool art [20:17] It's just too focused I guess [20:17] it just caters to the artists [20:17] well, usually, they're the one making cool art :3 [20:17] true [20:17] proves my point [20:18] [Obligatory remark about insularity] [20:19] also [20:19] it reminds me too much of the Great OELVN Race [20:20] why are people so competitive out there? :/ [20:20] I want co-op! :D [20:21] I hope they patch it in Life 8.2 [20:21] I'm in favor of individuality [20:21] Oh sure, single player is fun too :) [20:21] but it's nice to mingle with the Friends list from time to time ;) [20:21] sure [20:21] but I'll still work alone >) [20:22] I'm in favor of self-sufficiency. =3 [20:22] huzzah! [20:24] mmm... [20:24] but you don't evolve much then :/ [20:24] it's nice to see new stuff [20:24] you don't? [20:24] gets the brain running [20:25] I think my art skillz have evolved a lot since my initial release [20:25] well, it's a moot point since you're here, on IRC, discussing with other people anyway :P [20:25] :D [20:25] but imagine you were *really* alone [20:25] do you think you would evolve? [20:25] of course [20:25] someone with the capacity to develop [20:25] you have to keep seeing and experiencing new things [20:25] will develop in any environment [20:25] Self-sufficient is different from being a hermit. =3 [20:25] what kik just said >) [20:25] Kik : yeah but I wanted someone to say it :) [20:26] zomg! Didn't notice the straw man tactic [20:26] what would you say is the opposite of self-sufficient then? [20:26] here he comes again :) [20:26] An example would be like... people who ask for starting cash and equipment in busy cities in MMORPGs. ;P [20:27] please gimme a rare weapon coz I'm a noob [20:27] oh, and a doppelganger card or two would be nice ;) [20:28] As opposed to the person who works his way up from scratch through hard work and devotion. [20:28] how about askin for easy to kill high level enemies? [20:28] What's a straw man tactic? [20:28] In the case of VNs, those who work in teams to cover their weaknesses. [20:28] While working with other people is fun, I want to see what people can do with their own power. =3 [20:29] * Joins: Samu-kun (n=chatzill@12-216-2-115.client.mchsi.com) [20:29] Mmm.... yeah, I don't know [20:29] A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man," one describes a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view, yet is easier to refute. [20:29] Hi, Samu [20:29] I'm certainly not against people uniting their powers [20:29] I can't deny all my Super Robot love ;_; [20:29] example: misrepresentation of self-sufficient [20:29] to mean hermit [20:30] lord : I see :). If I do that, it's only because I misunderstood then. [20:30] Ok, I believe you ;) [20:30] sankyu :) [20:30] If I do that, it's always intentional! [20:30] I'm not against it either, but I do think that it's important for people to know and go through the hardships of a one-man effort. [20:32] Then they can better appreciate the work that goes into the "crappy" works that apparently have no care put into them. ;P [20:34] instead of being all preachy, I might add [20:39] I do think that this lack of the 'do-it-yourself' spirit among the current LSF crowd is deplorable. =3 [20:41] mm... [20:41] as it's said, I can't really agree with this ^^; [20:41] As long as you're not pompous, being in a team is just as valid as being alone [20:42] sure [20:42] but why can't the 'do-it-yourself' spirit also apply to the team? [20:43] doujin circle! [20:43] good... bad... who cares? It's doujin! [20:43] FIA: the omake is awesome =D [20:43] Thus, the amount of crappy lookin 2dfm games to go along with the pro level ones [20:44] in the end, every game has a place [20:45] sure, the pro level ones gather more attention, but there's an audience for the crappy ones too >) [20:50] * Joins: Hime- (n=Hime@a88-114-62-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [20:51] if you actually think they're "crappy", I think you've missed the point ^^; [20:52] a crappy game *is* a crappy game [20:52] something with nothing at all of interest [20:52] I'm interested in games with soul [20:54] crappy lookin [20:54] as for soul... [20:54] who knows [20:55] they're fighting games [20:55] and made by japanese [20:55] who know what they were thinkin when they inserted that sunflower character who looks like a stick man? [20:56] ah! finished the case digests [20:56] http://animerd2k2.net/case.htm [20:56] some of em are kinda lulzy [20:57] sunflower?...... [20:59] Probably an arbitrary thing to name. [20:59] Unless he happened to be thinking of the family flower at the time. ;P [20:59] * Quits: Hime (n=Hime@a88-114-62-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [20:59] nah [20:59] just saw this one character who looked like a sunflower stick man [20:59] in a 2dfm game [21:00] ^^; [21:04] hm, my mother's back [21:04] seems it was a false alarm [21:04] my sis has on over-active imagination [21:04] :P [21:05] ^^; [21:07] ei, kik [21:07] it sounds like you're speaking of the boogieman or something ^^; [21:07] ask the target something [21:07] "will you be eating soon?" yes sir! :D [21:07] "have you finished drawing?" yes sir! :D [21:08] no, j00! [21:08] Speaking of the boogieman? Wha? [21:09] I'd ask questions if I could think of any. ^^; [21:10] http://monele.ifrance.com/divers/expectations.jpg [21:11] hee [21:11] what's the message? [21:11] Hehehe =3 [21:11] that's for you to find :) [21:11] no pressure for the hobbyist? [21:11] I hope it's not *that* hard :) [21:11] yep ;) [21:14] I approve [21:15] :D [21:16] ok, diner time [21:22] I like the picket signs [21:22] lol [21:23] hm... now that I'm done with me homeworkz [21:23] I just remembered a story that I've been wanting to write for some time [21:24] Kino's journey inspired [21:24] Oho [21:24] so, there's the protagonist [21:24] her theme is... quest [21:25] personality is easygoing but no pushover [21:25] but unlike, Kino's journey, it's conflict-oriented [21:26] The purpose of the protagonist is to quest and to continue to do so [21:26] for what? [21:26] I have no idea [21:26] and thus, neither does she >) [21:26] so, along the way [21:26] she meets another person on a journey [21:26] his theme is reason [21:27] basically, a person who needs a reason for everything [21:27] sort of a busybody [21:27] and a little argument between em soon turns into a fight [21:28] it ends in a stalemate at this point, of course [21:28] * Joins: Hime (n=Hime@a88-114-62-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [21:28] and so, the protagonist continues her quest [21:29] meeting other embodiments of abstract concepts along the way [21:29] order, chaos, justice, love, etc. [21:29] basically, it's a long multi-chapter thingy [21:30] but the ultimate goal is the culmination of these personas [21:30] how that will be done, I haven't decided yet [21:30] though, I do have an ending in mind [21:30] one where the protagonist is forced to question the meaning of her existence [21:31] when she loses someone important due to the "quest" [21:31] Interesting ^^ [21:31] and basically, she finds herself in the very same place where she first started [21:32] lord : I'm glad the love-pickets were spotted ^^ [21:32] A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it [21:33] this is the main theme [21:33] though, there will be many others [21:33] I like what I'm reading so far :) [21:33] also, I think this type of story suits my writing style best [21:33] Gonna make it a VN? =3 [21:33] no [21:33] original fiction [21:34] I said Wings II was my last, remembah? [21:34] I meant it [21:34] Hehe [21:34] anywayz, the community will do jez fyn with their professional level VNs [21:34] hah! hah! hah! [21:35] * Quits: Hime- (n=Hime@a88-114-62-19.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [21:35] have fun professionalizing yourselves to death, lsf! [21:35] ^^; [21:36] Aww, no VN :( [21:36] it should be enjoyable to write as a multi-chapter story [21:36] like, when I'm bored, I just add another chapter [21:36] slowly working towards the climax [21:36] (btw, if anyone here is on DA, in what damn category would you put the thingie I linked to? ^^;...) [21:37] kikered [21:37] lord : just like when...... err... nevermind :3 [21:37] Whatever you feel like. =3 [21:37] >) [21:37] I'll really go eat now >.>... [21:37] * Monele is now known as MoniEat [21:37] heh, I think I get what you were trying to say [21:37] is it about the "climax?" [21:38] he ran away >) [21:39] ._. [21:40] formulate dem questions! [21:40] bombard him with questions! [21:40] lol [21:40] I've got nothing [21:42] read any Alan Moore yet? [21:46] Nope [21:46] I thought you were going to read Watchmen? [21:47] Maybe someday [21:47] Calling You is superior [21:47] for having more soul >) [21:48] Alan Moore is a great writer in the technical sense [21:49] It's hard to complain about the logic of his stories [21:49] It's like, sure, this should happen the way it was foreshadowed so heavily in volume x [21:49] but why did it have to happen? [21:50] Kinda like monele's reaction to 'Calling You'? =3 [21:50] something like that [21:51] but at least the tragic end made you feel good [21:51] since it was kinda bittersweet [21:51] Moore's stories just leave you feeling empty after reading em [21:51] like you're a blemish on humanity and you should just shoot yourself now [21:51] so everyone can spit on your corpse [21:52] ^^; [21:52] brb [21:52] laterz [21:52] * Quits: Kik|Work (n=kikered@nat/microsoft/x-8f64bb296067be42) ("restarting") [22:09] * MoniEat is now known as Monele [22:09] mraw [22:14] * Joins: Kik|Work (n=kikered@nat/microsoft/x-f424dad12ffe7d2f) [22:15] Whew. Looks like I won't fall in the 50% needing to reinstall the OS after installing some security feature ^^ [22:15] heh [22:17] ^^; [22:24] boring... [22:24] c'mon and show me this kick-ass art ya got, Samu [22:25] I sense bias in #renpy [22:25] >) [22:25] * Hime is evil [22:25] corz you are [22:26] ô_o [22:26] Samu: mugshot, eh? [22:26] ... T_T [22:26] http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/lordcloudx/kurawdo.png [22:26] I win [22:26] that's mean, cloud! [22:26] mean! [22:26] now bring the goods [22:26] xD [22:26] I'm just agreeing with ya [22:26] what's mean about that? [22:26] :) [22:27] and why are you evil anyway? [22:27] same reason as yesterday? [22:28] something going on in #renpy? ^^; [22:28] oh [22:28] aenakume says samu's latest artwork beats me big time [22:28] so I'm like pressurin samu to show me [22:29] corz, he's bein chicken as expected [22:29] Heh ^^; [22:29] What is she comparing to? [22:29] who knows? [22:30] I don't think she's comparing to anything [22:30] just trying to get on my nerves :) [22:30] ^^; [22:33] cloud, everything [22:33] * Hime sulks [22:33] but yes, Monele [22:33] I feel guilty [22:34] :( [22:34] ^^; [22:34] were you asked to? [22:35] Probably not [22:35] asked to what? :o [22:35] Do it [22:36] Do this... picture? [22:36] It'd be scary if I has been... [22:36] Indeed [22:36] so you did it on your own? [22:37] One would logically assume so if she wasn't asked to ') [22:37] ;) [22:37] yeah but I wasn't sure I interpreted these sentences right :p [22:37] I imagine monele's only trying to shame her further by making her admit it! [22:38] ok so.... Why did you do it? :) [22:38] what's wrong with drawin ecchi? [22:38] what's there to be guilty about? [22:38] * Joins: drakey (n=Drake@c-69-142-74-88.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) [22:38] it's the other way around actually, but sure :) [22:38] it's anatomy, anatomy [22:38] If it were me, plenty ._. [22:38] Hi, drake [22:38] u..uu... [22:38] greetz, drake [22:38] 'llo folks [22:38] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mK0EoxK8bw [22:38] Hi drake [22:38] Yo drake [22:38] uu... [22:39] But yes, Monele [22:39] To be honest, I have no idea [22:39] I just... I think the last push was DaFool's post in the forums [22:39] That had horribly drawn Japanese ero [22:39] :) [22:39] ô_o [22:39] i hate walking in the middle of an active conversation [22:39] ah?... I think I missed that [22:39] ...Yes... [22:39] It's weird [22:39] uwah [22:40] I'm too young to visit the h-forums [22:40] :) [22:40] I think you're sharp enough to infer what's going on, drake. ;) [22:41] only the littlest bit [22:41] I'm not sure what to say, really [22:41] ("The followiing error occurred during setup: Installation failed." [22:41] It sounds like you were just curious [22:41] Gee, I didn't notice that... ) [22:42] so there, now it's done and that's it [22:42] what's done? what? [22:43] somebody better tell me what the hell we're talking about before i take to shouting... [22:44] Hime is feeling guilty [22:44] about drawin slightly ero stuff [22:44] of her own volition [22:44] the end [22:44] pretty much [22:45] * Joins: xRENx (n=chatzill@62.97.60.64) [22:45] Hi, Ren [22:45] greetings, Ren [22:45] Hi oneechan [22:45] and I'm pretty sure there's no need to guilt over that, which I'm trying to express ^^; [22:45] 'llo sensei [22:45] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mK0EoxK8bw [22:45] Meow Ren [22:45] Hi :3 [22:45] darn you lord... I've been had [22:46] Monele: if it were me, I'd guilt plenty. ^^; [22:46] it's an auto response to 'llo [22:46] I'm not sure why it is though ^^; [22:46] Starfish, I can understand. [22:46] http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6594/harunyanee8.jpg [22:46] you should probably just change it to something text [22:46] Kik : yeah, I'm curious about your take on this too actually :) [22:46] Well, maybe not the current one. [22:47] Scooter, I understand. [22:47] http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6594/harunyanee8.jpg [22:47] ...or not. [22:47] ok [22:47] You changed them, cloud!! [22:47] sure did [22:47] I'm not changin em back till he shows me something [22:48] also changed 'llo [22:48] try it [22:48] oh and one more reason why I'm doing this [22:48] It's nicer than studying physics [22:48] right, that's something to be guilty about [22:48] monele: as the upstanding symbol of propriety that my persona is, I'd be plenty shamed drawing anything remotely inappropriate. ;P [22:49] translation: "I am a pansy" [22:49] XD [22:49] that's a bit strong :p [22:49] Nah, well... I guess I can understand. [22:50] ..hahaha... [22:50] lol [22:50] though I'm not sure : is it about drawing ecchi or even drawing naked bodies? [22:50] but yes, I understand what you mean Kikered [22:50] ...u..uuu... [22:50] I guess it's about the ecchiness part [22:50] there's nothing wrong with that [22:50] I can draw naked bodies like nothing when there's nothing ecchi about it but... [22:51] It's both for me. >> [22:51] mm.... [22:51] This is borderline ero, uu... [22:51] you are a healthy young girl after all >) [22:51] oh yeah, I just needed to say that [22:51] well, let's see this in another angle : did you enjoy drawing it? [22:51] ! [22:51] D: [22:51] Enjoy in what way? [22:51] Well, as an artist enjoys creating something? [22:51] Uh, well, I have done a lot of experiments during this drawing [22:52] For example, I did the lineart in a new way [22:52] Yeah, well, that way yes [22:52] well see, you experimented artistically and probably learned new stuff in the process [22:53] yes [22:53] I think the lineart is better than with the other techniques I've used [22:53] Also, the reason I sketched this in the very beginning was to research anatomy and perspective [22:53] so... now you can either bring back this new knowledge to what you usually draw :) [22:53] You know, ero is extremely hard to draw [22:54] or, if you think there's more to experiment, go back to this too. But not if it's a topic you hate [22:54] Yes :o [22:54] Because there are unusual poses and you have to use strange perspectives if you want it to look professional, it really helps you learn I think [22:54] yes indeed. [22:55] I'll say something weird but... I've often discovered unsuspected knowledge through such things. It's not to praise it but in my case, it was often beneficial in ways I didn't see at first [22:55] Bokusatsu Tenshi Dokuro-chan [22:55] oh noez [22:55] (which does mean that yes, I was first lured for not so glorious reasons >.>...) [22:56] ^^; [22:56] (but let's ignore that part, 'kay? :D) [22:56] what arcane knowledge didja discover? [22:56] this is a part of your developer interview [22:56] >) [22:56] haha XDDD [22:56] evil you :P [22:56] never feed me straight lines [22:56] see Hime? *That* is evil :) [22:56] I'll always pounce on em [22:56] not what you did ;) [22:57] anyway, to answer the question, I discovered VNs through it, for starters [22:57] ooh [22:57] I see, Monele [22:57] And through this, I discovered new art styles [22:57] bah! [22:57] I was expecting something grand! [22:57] Thank you for your words, I feel better now ^^ [22:57] sorry, no cure for cancer or anything hidden within it :P [22:57] not so far at least [22:58] Hime : I'm glad ^_^ [22:58] bokusatsuu tenshiiii [22:58] zomg! song abuse [22:58] No worries, I am shamed easily enough to make up for the lack of it in other people. =3 [22:59] awesome [22:59] they're playin th scrapped princess op [23:00] *listens to Mana Khemia OST again :D* [23:00] *and waits for further questions* [23:00] btw, moni [23:00] it's been slow tonight :p [23:01] the next time there's a karaoke event [23:01] mm? [23:01] you know have to sing Run For Your Life [23:01] this weekend! [23:01] D: [23:01] lol [23:01] I'll have to get the lyrics and train then ^^; [23:01] how bout it? [23:01] this weekend [23:01] ask these folks [23:01] I'm a big Shimotsukin fan [23:02] last question directed to all in general [23:02] I don't mind I guess [23:02] I wouldn't mind it as long as I don't have to sing again ;P [23:02] barring someone who has been partially active in #renpy who hasn't said a single word since arriving here >) [23:02] lol [23:02] no one in particular >) [23:04] ^^; [23:04] ...... *whistles* [23:04] ..ahahaha [23:04] Guess he's a bigger fan of the crowd there these days ^^; [23:04] I think I know who you mean [23:04] Kik: good [23:05] holy crap [23:05] * lordcloudx is genuinely pissed [23:05] >( [23:05] moni, have i ever told you how much of a genius you are? [23:06] mm.. nope. First time I think ^^; [23:06] and I'm curious as to why ^^; [23:06] just saw this : http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/download/file.php?id=3439&mode=view [23:06] oh ^_^ eeheh [23:06] =3 [23:07] awww [23:07] that's beautiful <3 [23:08] "beautiful", really? [23:08] it's pure and absolute genius [23:08] yeah, beautiful [23:08] wait wait... oh yeah, there, I can't go through doorframes anymore ^^;;... [23:08] Indeed it is. [23:09] It's so true and... <3 [23:09] all right quit it xD... I'll either blush furiously or have more ego than the whole team of a certain project ^^; [23:10] :) [23:10] I have more ego than a whole team of a certain project [23:10] xDDD [23:10] :D [23:10] well yeah... but :P [23:10] Which project if I may ask? [23:10] ...honestly? =3 [23:10] humm.. Do you mean *that* project? [23:11] I have nothing against the project, but it just happens a group of people we didn't appreciate some time ago seem to all be working on it ^^; [23:11] no worries [23:11] What a mild way of putting it [23:11] it'll fail in due time [23:11] and we can all have a good laugh [23:11] well, see, I don't even wish that [23:12] but I sure do [23:12] ooh [23:12] it *will* fail [23:12] I think I know now [23:12] you have the freedom to laugh or not [23:12] unless the project has changed terribly from the demo we saw [23:12] Yeah, it's true :) [23:12] but I really liked what they did at first [23:12] A bread made by a mean baker tasted mean [23:13] The same thing with VNs [23:13] ^^ [23:13] I dunno, really [23:13] I'd personally hate most of the people who do the music I like for example [23:13] hmm :o [23:13] I can relate to that [23:13] and some of the actors I like are pure ****s [23:13] but I still appreciate their work [23:13] Nicol [23:13] I like his work for Broken Sky [23:14] well yeah, I guess that's true but... In several cases, what I said is true too [23:14] but I really hate that guy [23:14] Hime : I know :) [23:14] just saying that it's not an absolute ^^ [23:14] If a work is made in a heavy atmosphere of elitism and stuck-upness, it most likely won't end up pretty and enjoyable [23:14] that I can agree with [23:14] until proven otherwise ^^ [23:14] Yeah [23:14] so we'll see [23:15] A lot of things go like this I think [23:15] this project will either prove or disprove this [23:15] (but yeah, I'll admit I'll both cackle and sigh if it fails) [23:15] disprove nothing [23:15] Yeah, if it ever gets finished [23:15] it'll fail [23:15] cloudy, do you have the log for yesterday? [23:15] yup [23:15] It looks like it'll be one of those eternity projects to me [23:16] mind if i see it? [23:16] i might get ideas for a few new questions before i'm put to work by the boss [23:16] Then our duty is to provide games in the meantime ^_^ [23:16] sure [23:16] because people deserve to play nice VNs :D [23:16] driver's high [23:16] awesome [23:16] The Boss [23:16] scary [23:16] The Boss is awesome [23:17] the boss is just an ass sometimes [23:17] eehee ^^ [23:17] ^^; [23:17] See? Talent and personality ;p [23:17] I give you The Boss! http://img.stern.de/_content/53/80/538015/mgs_boss_750.jpg [23:17] i'm not talking about that one though [23:17] woop~ :) [23:17] The The Boss is just gold :3 [23:18] *wipes a tear* [23:18] The Boss died for her country by betraying it! What have you done for yours lately?! [23:18] haha ^^ [23:18] cool motivational poster in the making there ;p [23:19] I can tell you what Kikered hasn't done for his [23:19] vote [23:19] ^^; [23:19] chatlog http://www.sendspace.com/file/2i2b44 [23:19] thank you muchly [23:19] mgs [23:20] * drakey goes off to read and ponder up some questions [23:20] I oughta play the ps2 games sometime [23:20] yay, kweshuns! [23:20] *giggles* [23:20] the target enjoys it too much [23:20] *pouts* [23:20] °3° [23:20] *frolics around* [23:21] *pounces on Silent Ren* [23:21] (doesn't it sound like a video game title? :3) [23:21] question: Who's writing for your latest project? [23:22] yeah really! [23:22] Hm? [23:22] though it's confidential intel apparently [23:22] haha! Woke you up :3 [23:22] *climbs on shoulder* [23:22] I'm not telling [23:22] not until I have approval :) [23:22] and not until we have something consistent [23:22] what is the new project all about? [23:23] :3 [23:23] Mixing two particular gamebooks' style with VNs [23:23] how big is your team? [23:23] not very :) [23:23] 2 for now :) [23:24] might up to 3 [23:24] how do you think this new game will stack up to Magbou? [23:24] not the same genre or objective, so I'm not sure it can be compared [23:24] I'd like it to be more polished [23:24] What is the genre/objective of this one? [23:24] xD [23:24] gosh, you're on a roll :) [23:25] you asked for it [23:25] let's see... [23:25] yeah I know XD [23:25] this one is a bit harder to answer [23:25] *thinks* [23:25] take your time [23:26] Oh right, experiment with challenges in VNs. Something I've been meaning to do for a while [23:26] it also shares the "happy mood" of MagBou to some extent [23:26] will this be a story-driven game? [23:26] yes [23:27] what is the 4th dimension? [23:27] The one after the 3rd [23:27] .... :D [23:27] Outside the Eternal Sphere, duh [23:27] stop asking questions you know the answer to! [23:27] :) [23:27] he's testing me! [23:28] How did you first get into VN medium? [23:28] ah, the flow is trickling :) [23:28] oh crap XD [23:28] mmmm.... [23:28] nah, just reloading [23:28] eehee... is it exhilarating? ;p [23:29] well? [23:29] lessee... what do we consider "getting into"? [23:29] first time I played one and thought "hey, this is cool?" [23:29] introduced [23:29] yah [23:29] or actually into *making* them? [23:29] no, just VNs in general [23:30] First VN experiences was probably True Love. Dating sim, though, but it had the VN concept too of course [23:30] that's better than my first [23:30] after that, all the "classic" h games of back then. Most notably Nocturnal Illusions, Eve Burst Error [23:30] Fatal Relations [23:30] and that one too XD [23:30] and Gloria <3 [23:31] I'm kind of boring [23:31] then more modern ones like Tokimeki Check'in (which probably made me yearn for some *real* gameplay XD) [23:31] I think my first was Narcissu ^^; [23:31] So, back then, did it ever hit you that you'd be making VNs yourself one day? [23:31] Hime : I think it's okay, all the ones I mentioned were H games ^^; [23:31] I have the feeling you don't want my past of VNs :P [23:32] lord : mmm... not at first, no [23:32] I think I was still into adventure games [23:32] So, when did you first think of becoming active in the (as coined by yours truly) EVN scene? [23:32] and fighting games were on my mind too [23:32] RPGs too actually [23:33] (thank god for EVN <3 how the hell did we keep using that old acronym for so long? ^^;...) [23:33] when? mmm... [23:33] so we're trying to get evn to stick now? [23:33] I'm not sure where I was at when I discovered the forums actually... [23:33] * Quits: Samu-kun (n=chatzill@12-216-2-115.client.mchsi.com) ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]") [23:34] I think I had reached the Kittease phase. [23:34] there goes the "guest" [23:34] But yeah, pretty much when I discovered the community itself [23:34] >) [23:34] you know how it is, I thought I was alone ;p [23:34] I was using Flash up to then [23:35] drakey: way it happened was that this delta guy was bitchin about OELVNS and stuff with renpytom [23:35] and talkin about how to abbreviate it [23:35] fools! [23:35] heh [23:36] EVN [23:36] delta bitches a lot [23:36] it's his thing [23:36] it's that simple [23:36] renpytom ended up adopting it [23:36] anywayz [23:36] :) [23:36] delta: "What the hell? Do I need to even update my version of renpy? You added things to it that /other/ people need?!" [23:36] let's continue [23:36] http://monele.ifrance.com/gallery/pictures/AP_DialogueConcept.jpg <- first VN concept attempt :) [23:36] http://monele.ifrance.com/gallery/pictures/AP_MapDesert.jpg <- but still gameish of course :3 [23:37] not too shabby [23:37] it's all photoshop :p [23:37] the first pic [23:37] and pictuahs [23:38] but thankyou ^^ [23:38] how would you classify yourself as a creator? [23:39] I don't like classifying :3 [23:39] fair enough [23:39] cheap way out [23:39] so moni, any plans to make a PW-esque game? [23:40] Cheap way out but really, is there just one box I can be put into? ô_o [23:40] please don't saw me [23:40] PWesque? [23:40] oh [23:40] uh... [23:40] Does it include investigation? [23:40] doesn't have to [23:41] then why not. But I have no such plans yet [23:41] would you give other pw-esque games a try? or would you feel it a violation of the original work? [23:41] I do like the idea of moving around places and interacting with objects. I already proved that with Warp Onsen and (the probably never seen?) Little Witch [23:42] err Lil' Witch [23:42] I was intrigued by the Pimp Wright project :) [23:42] heh, i am vaguely myself [23:42] It's scary to think it might just not be the same, of course (given how I feel PW4 was already not the same, even though it was done by the original team) [23:43] Enerccio has expressed a desire to make something like a PW game, but he expresses a lot of desires he doesn't persue [23:43] and if it's not PW inspired directly, well yeah, sure too [23:43] >) [23:43] What is it about you and cats? [23:44] (Well, even I'm guilty of wanting to make a PW) [23:45] eehee XD [23:45] ^^; [23:46] :) [23:48] He can't answer? =3 [23:48] sorry xD [23:48] uh.... well... [23:48] I like cats ? [23:48] They're so cuddly ;3; [23:48] does this extend to humanoid cats? [23:48] and I'm kinda like them in ways [23:49] I'm lazy, I would sleep most of the day if allowed, and I like people to gimme food :3 [23:49] catgirls you mean? *_* [23:49] That kinda sounds like dogs, too ^^; [23:49] Kik : I'm vain too then [23:49] Kik : all cat now :P [23:50] ^^; [23:50] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Z_vqnWVSg [23:51] Is this related? ^^; [23:51] have sum cats http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdFijT11Cao [23:52] Maybe he's not-so-subtly hinting at what you should sing next. =3 [23:52] that's engrish, btw [23:52] the lyrics are all english [23:52] ...hey~. I like it. =D [23:52] oh, both songs are awesome [23:52] but the lyrics are still engrish [23:52] though I like the message [23:53] not my kind of cat :p [23:53] the human-sized ones in this style kinda creep me out XD [23:54] ^^; [23:54] destiny is calling you [23:54] obey me [23:54] * Joins: Samu-kun (n=chatzill@12-216-2-115.client.mchsi.com) [23:54] or defy me [23:54] http://monele.ifrance.com/gallery/pictures/Kittease_2.jpg <- my kind of cat :3 [23:54] This kind of music sits well with me for some reason ^^; [23:54] humanoid cats [23:55] catgirls, to be exact [23:55] yes sir [23:55] Including that guy towards the bottom left? =3 [23:55] he's not a cat :) [23:55] unless you're talking about Ultimya [23:56] but she's on the far left [23:56] Hehe [23:56] and she's not a guy :3 [23:57] Mm... is there such a thing as being high on questions? [23:57] Is that what you're feeling at the moment? =3 [23:58] would you do a KEY-esque story? [23:58] Hehehe [23:58] * Kik|Work predicts the response Session Close: Wed Nov 26 00:00:00 2008 Session Start: Wed Nov 26 00:00:00 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [00:00] I don't think I've ever played anything KEY [00:00] so I'll say no :) [00:00] gasp [00:00] Have you seen any of the anime based on KEY games though? [00:00] yet, you know what the stories are all about? [00:01] nope and nope [00:01] (Kanon, Air, Clannad) [00:01] Le gasp =o [00:01] eehee :3 [00:01] In relation to storytelling, do you believe in using experimental storytelling techniques and their merits? [00:01] I don't think it's for me, so... ^^; [00:01] not even ONE? [00:01] noes drakey :) [00:02] this needs to be fixed [00:02] I was under the impression that they weren't his type of games either. =3 [00:02] me too :) [00:02] Based on his reaction to how Calling You ended. =3 [00:02] lord : ..... i..... don't think I'm good enough with *regular* storytelling to even discuss experimental ones ^^;... I like some of it when I see it, but that's it. [00:02] drakey : not really ;p [00:02] Kik : yeah, I get the same vibe from these, from the very little I know about them :) [00:03] A shame. ;P [00:03] Monele: Don't you think the idea of being able to bring about a different and totally unique experience exclusive only to the VN medium through the marriage of text and visuals has merit? [00:04] (What a loaded question... ^^; ) [00:04] Well, I'm bringing him into my world now [00:04] lol [00:05] lord : sure, why not [00:05] (what an half-assed answer XD) [00:05] and you have no desire to attempt to bring about this experience? [00:05] I do think there's something unique to the medium, yes [00:06] what do you think I've been trying to do all this time? ^^; [00:06] mou~ [00:06] make a VN/management sim hybrid? [00:06] xD [00:06] marry games to vns [00:06] not text to image [00:06] * Quits: Kik|Work (n=kikered@nat/microsoft/x-f424dad12ffe7d2f) ("work's done!") [00:06] oh right... mm... [00:06] true enough ^^; [00:07] If someone could instantly grant you the ability to draw better or write better, which would you choose? [00:07] :D [00:07] write [00:07] that's whereI lack the most [00:08] yet, you're the 2nd most talkative member here [00:08] perhaps you don't 'lack' as much as you think? [00:09] IRC the VN isn't gonna be a literary classic [00:09] true [00:09] but that's because it's society that decides what a classic is [00:09] Sure, I can spew out lots of words when discussing my projects :3 [00:09] it just stops when I'm trying to *make* the projects XD [00:10] I weep with sadness [00:10] drakey : but;.. the VN shouldn't be a literary classic. It's like asking a movie to be a literary classic :) [00:10] Just aim for the VNy classic :) [00:10] * Joins: Jake` (n=jake@cpc2-pete3-0-0-cust565.pete.cable.ntl.com) [00:10] well, it was just for the joke [00:11] but what exactly is it that prevents you from writing as well as you'd like to? [00:11] greetings, Jake [00:11] perhaps the ability to do so? [00:11] Jake! [00:11] err... [00:11] what drakey said XD [00:11] *jumps on* [00:12] Guten Abend! [00:12] *falls off shoulder* [00:12] eep~ [00:12] -thud- [00:12] x_x [00:12] Aww... [00:12] *pats Ren* [00:12] *purrs* [00:12] lord : as I once said, I have a hard time putting it all together [00:13] lord : I think if you gave me a complete plot, I could write for it [00:13] one sentence at a time works wonders :) [00:13] nah but it's not really making sentences. It's making a story :) [00:13] yes [00:13] that's why you make a sentence at a time [00:13] err.. [00:13] the story practically writes itself as you get into the flow [00:13] tried it with UP [00:13] didn't work that well [00:14] why not? [00:14] ... .because it didn't? ^^;... I got stuck with a story that wasn't something I was able to continue [00:15] I see [00:15] in that case [00:15] becuase of lack of planning [00:15] use event landmarks [00:15] (or lack of imagination) [00:15] a certain event has to happen to connect to the next [00:15] that was my other method :) [00:15] and then I have a problem connecting the dots [00:15] now all you need to do is to fill the spaces in-between [00:16] shorten the distance b/w them [00:16] well, shortening the distance is making intermediate dots :P [00:17] and that's not particularly easier to me ^^; [00:17] it should be for you! [00:17] insert some game sequence in there [00:17] That's a possibility, but also kind of a cheap way out :) [00:17] it's not improving story writing, it's hiding its flaws behind game [00:17] a cheap way out is better than no way out [00:18] (which I'm not totally against but...) [00:18] oh sure :) [00:18] eh, MagBou is pretty much an example of this anyway :) [00:18] I guess I could offer another tip [00:19] nya? [00:19] This will be finished soon... [00:19] puchi? [00:19] don't be afraid to use ordinary seemingly day-to-day events [00:19] eating breakfast [00:19] lord : did that one ;p [00:19] taking a stroll [00:20] and? [00:20] and it's MagBou breakfast scene :) [00:20] heh [00:20] but I can't do only that, nor does it work all the time [00:20] I meant using these ordinary events to work towards advancing the story [00:21] not everything has to be all that exciting [00:21] it's a good tip all right. But I have the feeling I didn't shy away from this, so maybe it's not what's lacking [00:21] Oh wait, I know one of my biggest problems actually : "what ifs" [00:22] I get stuck undecided on many variations [00:22] that is a big problem [00:22] grab a notebook [00:22] I love what ifs so much that I have a hard time scratching off versions :) [00:22] and decide on one scene [00:22] everything else is scrapped [00:22] yeah, this definitely tugs at my heart string ^^; [00:23] poor little alternate worlds ;3; [00:23] It's the same thing with essay writing [00:23] you'll have a million different ideas [00:23] but you need to decide on just one [00:23] otherwise, you lose coherence [00:23] mm... [00:24] (subtle poke at someone) [00:24] but essays are just abstract stuff :) [00:24] I did that easily back when I had to write them [00:24] but stories... worlds... characters.. gyah! [00:24] but yeah, I guess that's one big point I have to work on [00:24] though the form is different, the mindset during writing should be identical [00:24] the thing is I'm always afraid I'll pick the wrong one [00:24] there is no wrong choice [00:25] and then base everything on it and cry if I realize another choice was better and i'll have to do some horrible overhaul ^^; [00:25] first you make a decision, then you stand by it [00:25] Lacus Clyne [00:25] lolz [00:25] well, the one you're not content with is the wrong choice [00:26] I don't think I'll accept a Lacus Clyne quote as valid :PP [00:27] drakey : but I luff them all :P... why wouldI have a hard time choosing? XD [00:27] Tell us something about Magbou that most people wouldn't really notice? [00:27] * drakey is now known as drakey|away [00:28] mmmmm.... o_O [00:28] still, making a decision is important [00:28] it's one more step towards the finished story [00:28] now, answer the question [00:29] I'm trying! [00:29] oh yeah : the ingredient icons were all made from photographs :) [00:29] was it noticed? [00:31] big silence... ^^; [00:32] sry [00:32] just pwning samu-kun in that other channel [00:33] the ingredient icons were made from photos. [00:33] no, I didn't notice [00:34] What motivates you to continue to create games? [00:34] that I don't consider I've reached my goal [00:34] which will lead to another question :3 [00:35] to which I'm not sure how to answer [00:35] so you're reaching for an indefinable goal? [00:35] fair enough [00:35] no, no, I just don't know how to express it [00:35] I see [00:35] and/or I haven't tried to define it precisely [00:35] then it's fine [00:36] I did say that one of them is adding challenge to VNs [00:36] but I have something else, for sure... because I didn't even know VNs when I started [00:36] So, it's something vaguely related to the gaming aspect? [00:36] not really [00:36] to the experience you want to impart? [00:36] very generally, I just want to bring to people the pleasure I've had when watching/playing my favourite entertainment [00:37] it's like something I owe [00:37] acceptable [00:38] 'Acceptable'?! [00:38] Considering the fact that you're one of the veterans of the EVN scene, what advice would you give to aspiring future creators? [00:39] acceptable = It's acceptable to me, everyone else doesn't matter! [00:39] JAke : can you do an "objection!" for me? :D [00:39] (... I seriously don't know why... i'm sleep deprived XD) [00:39] Objection! [00:39] yay :D *giddy* [00:39] thank you :) [00:39] now answer the question >) [00:39] meh :p [00:41] err.... lessee... go with your vision, try new stuff if you like that. Listen to critiques if they don't contradict your vision. [00:41] Have fun and we'll have fun. [00:41] Something like that? [00:41] Listen to critiques if they don't contradict your vision... [00:41] so you believe the creator's vision should be top priority? [00:42] it's the base [00:42] that's where the passion goes through [00:42] and I like works with passion :) [00:42] Well then, I'm done. [00:42] tastes yummies [00:43] t'was an interesting session [00:43] * Quits: Samu-kun (n=chatzill@12-216-2-115.client.mchsi.com) ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]") [00:43] now someone bombard him with more questions! [00:43] there goes our guest again [00:44] this is going to beat me? http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7884/asagafinaloz1.png [00:44] laughable [00:44] *twitch*.... she does have *the* smile [00:45] Oh, it's interrogate-Monele day! [00:45] I have a question! [00:45] >) [00:45] oh boy :) [00:45] Why? [00:45] haha [00:45] no reason XD [00:45] you asked drake the same thing [00:47] so, that's it ? :) [00:49] Will be going to sleep then ^^; [00:49] you are? [00:50] it's 0.50am [00:50] might as well go too [00:50] going to be dead again tomorrow [00:50] it's 7:49 AM [00:50] as usual [00:50] yes, I didn't sleep [00:50] I wish I could have a pause button on life :/ [00:51] when you reach true enlightenment, you can control spacetime at will [00:51] 0050AM? [00:51] That's nothing. I was up until half three last night! [00:51] sir yes sir! [00:51] HALF PAST THREE [00:52] I beat you both [00:52] I understand sir! It's laughable sir! I'm pitiful sir! [00:52] You're insane, though, it's different. [00:52] I've been here since 10:00 PM last night [00:52] the time is... 7:51 AM [00:52] of course, my partial insanity helps a lot [00:52] >D [00:53] but I'd better get some sleep [00:53] quiz time at 5:30 [00:53] later, ppl [00:54] Also, samu-kun is delusional [00:54] the body and the head don't even match [00:54] like the head was decapitated from some random loli [00:54] allrighty, bai bai gents & ladies! [00:54] and copy pastad onto the obviously traced mature body [00:54] lolz [00:55] * Quits: lordcloudx (n=lordclou@acl1-730bts.gw.smartbro.net) ("puru puru rin") [00:55] * Disconnected Session Close: Wed Nov 26 00:55:25 2008 Session Start: Wed Nov 26 18:57:17 2008 Session Ident: #baka-trio [18:57] * Now talking in #baka-trio [18:57] * Topic is 'Anthology Project: http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm -- Topic - Let's discuss/explain our stories! Target: Moni!' [18:57] * Set by drakey on Sun Nov 23 02:31:48 [18:57] -ChanServ- [#baka-trio] Welcome to #baka-trio. The Visual Novel developer's skill workshop channel. http://real-life.animerd2k2.net/readme/channel.htm #baka-trio url is http://real-life.animerd2k2.net [18:57] nyan [18:57] (bbl, lunch ^^; ) [18:57] how timely [18:57] [freenode-connect VERSION] [18:57] =3 [18:57] greetings, monele [18:58] I've brought in a new recruit [18:58] meet your kouhai [18:58] denzil [18:59] he keeps fleeing to lunch when I come :( [18:59] *blinks* [18:59] nya? [18:59] isn't that because you come in during his lunch break? [18:59] Impossibeul :P [19:00] So uh, yeah.. kouhai, what? :) [19:00] hello denzil in any case :) [19:00] hehe [19:01] hello Monele [19:01] I just meant I pirated denzil in here from that other channel [19:01] Ohh... so he's the next victim? :) [19:01] btw, denzil [19:01] we're on interview mode [19:01] the download is 90% completed [19:01] basically, we choose a target (in the topic) [19:02] and everyone gets to ask the current target questions about his/her games [19:02] right now, it's monele [19:02] yeah. I get high on questions. [19:02] but yeah, why don't you choose the next victim, monele? [19:02] so far... Kikered, Drakey, You [19:03] Mmm... [19:03] you may change the topic [19:03] anyone can [19:03] oh? oh okay [19:04] see? we're awesome [19:04] we don't abuse that privilege [19:04] yeah, incredibeul [19:04] *thinking* [19:05] denzil: hee hee that download is slooow [19:06] btw, monele [19:06] we plan to play some SWR [19:06] who would be likely candidate? [19:06] swr? [19:06] Scarlet Weather Rhapsody [19:06] when kikered is on his thanksgiving break [19:07] we used to play it non-stop here [19:07] perhaps you'd care to join us >) [19:08] Perhaps. When would that be? (no thanksgiving here, so I'm not clear on dates) [19:08] my patchouli does not know defeat [19:08] So after today, I've got the rest of the week off from work ^^ [19:09] denzil's downloading it now [19:09] not anymore, download completed [19:09] ok [19:09] kewl [19:09] get familiar with it [19:09] we'll have to see. Right now, for example, I wouldn't be hot for it :) [19:09] and you'd better have a gamepad or arcade pad [19:10] otherwise, we shall righteously pwn you in online play >) [19:10] Kikered = Alice, Youmu, Marisa, Reisen [19:11] you will anyway [19:11] I'm no good at fighting games, in spite of liking them [19:11] Me = Aya, Alice, Yuyuko, Youmu, Reisen, Reimu, Suika, Patchouli [19:12] don't worry [19:12] and I know nothing of the game, so... [19:12] SWR has a very fair system [19:12] both me and kikered picked it up in a day [19:12] and made the veteran (drakey) [19:12] taste defeat [19:12] lol [19:13] like, when you're too far ahead of your opponent in terms of the lifebar [19:13] you do significantly lower damage [19:13] while the other player does higher damage [19:13] it makes for intense back-and-forth matches [19:14] Enerccio = Reimu, Reimu, Reimu and Reimu [19:14] Drakey = Sakuya, Tenshi, Yuyuko [19:15] FIA = Komachi, Patchouli, Suika [19:15] oh [19:15] and drakey also uses Remilia [19:15] but he got pwned a lot [19:15] and rarely uses it now [19:15] >P [19:16] her [19:16] now... lemme fill you in on our playing styles [19:16] I'm still lost as to who's who :P [19:16] err ^^; [19:16] oh, that's awright [19:16] can this wait till later though? [19:16] yah, sure [19:16] I don't think I'm ready to absorb the info tonight :) [19:17] oh [19:17] no info [19:17] just a general overview of how we like to play [19:18] Kikered: Will wait forever for you to use a punishable move so he can punish you with a counter-attack. He rarely uses spellcards(specials) and prefers to use basic and very safe moves to win. [19:18] to prove this [19:18] I have a replay [19:18] where we just stood in front of each other for almost a minute [19:18] I was wondering why I was getting pwned so badly [19:19] then it hit me that he was just reacting to my moves [19:19] so I didn't make any [19:19] neither did he [19:19] it was quite a lulzy match [19:20] recently, he's become more aggressive [19:20] spamming all the fast projectile attacks [19:21] while still taking very few risks [19:21] Enerccio: Uses Reimu and only raymoo! [19:22] He's the complete opposite of Kikered [19:22] he will attack you from any part of the screen [19:22] with either projectiles or melee attacks [19:22] doesn't really matter [19:22] he doesn't use any of the more complex moves [19:22] because he doesn't know how [19:23] all that matters to him is to keep the flow of attacks continous [19:23] because of this [19:23] he's very prone to eating counter-attacks [19:24] all one has to do is weather the storm [19:24] once you realize that he just uses the same repeated-pattern of attacking [19:25] you can effectively counter [19:25] lol, this is like those character descriptions in some gaming mags [19:26] (meep) [19:27] FIA and Drakey [19:27] they have different regular characters [19:27] but they're the same type of player [19:27] highly technical [19:27] they use a wide range of moves [19:28] and fancy specials and combinations [19:28] however.... [19:28] Drakey actually seems to have a losing streak against Kikered [19:28] (and so do I >() [19:29] the main difference between FIA and Drakey [19:29] is the predictability [19:29] FIA is more unpredictable [19:30] I'm so gonna get pwnd :/ [19:30] Drakey has a set pattern of attacks [19:30] one move will lead to another [19:30] Myself [19:31] I don't need any strategy [19:31] I just use patchouli [19:31] and keep spamming the homing fireballs [19:31] while flying very high away [19:31] the best part is... [19:31] * Joins: Enerccio (n=wutlol@179-235.kolejnet.upol.cz) [19:31] they haven't been able to find a way to beat that [19:31] Moni!!!! [19:31] ah, here he is [19:31] the Reimu player [19:32] pi? [19:32] * Enerccio is now known as Guest51061 [19:32] omgf [19:32] care to join us, Enerccio? [19:32] so Moni [19:32] pii? [19:32] why are you offline in steam? :'( [19:32] we're gonna be playin sum swr this week [19:32] Took a little pause, sorry ^^; [19:32] I might come back tonight a bit. But I'm not sure as I'm rather tired [19:32] yesterday was so boring [19:33] aw [19:33] well come now :) [19:33] I was just telling monele about your awesome aggressive tactics [19:33] :D [19:33] meh L4D >>>>>> SWR [19:33] I'm more likely to come at around 9pm [19:33] you say that about any game you're currently playing [19:33] okay I will ge here [19:33] *be [19:33] good :) [19:34] didn't you have a losing streak against Remilia? [19:34] who cares about some shitty SWR [19:34] L4D! [19:34] >) [19:34] lol [19:35] he didn't deny it [19:35] so true [19:35] L4D is kind of multi player games [19:35] I know [19:35] co-op fps [19:35] and no I did won against remillia [19:35] right? [19:35] until drake started to spam same move of course [19:35] lolz [19:35] yeah [19:35] wall kick? [19:35] yeah [19:35] that's soo broken [19:36] you cant go away from it [19:36] it's punishable after a block [19:36] you can only block [19:36] but I dont blok [19:36] *block [19:36] xDD [19:36] so fuck remilia [19:36] I know [19:36] it's a way of life :) [19:36] I am aggressor [19:36] you just attack [19:36] I never block [19:36] I graze that yeah [19:36] but no blocking [19:36] you can't graze a wall kick! [19:36] it counts as a melee [19:36] exactly [19:37] thats why fuck remillia [19:37] I would [19:37] hehe [19:37] I would only fuck reimu [19:37] in the pooper, in vagOO, in mouth and in armpit, that is [19:37] oh moni, what brought you to the lsf? [19:37] chance? [19:38] lol, a sudden interrogation [19:38] what chance? [19:38] Well, I was trying to make a VN with Flash, but tried to look for engines and discovered Ren'Py [19:38] okay [19:39] then why did you start to make a vn? [19:40] mm... [19:40] My very first project was actually not a VN to begin. It was a "I don't know what genre to choose ;o;" [19:41] (Asylium, for reference) [19:41] new info [19:41] I think I discovered Quartett around that time [19:41] and I had seen enough H VNs to know what it could do [19:42] but I'm really not sure *why* I went with that style in retrospect ^^; [19:42] It was going to be a mix of fighting, team management (relationships), exploration and stuff [19:42] It just seemed like an easy way to deal with narration [19:43] heh [19:43] or maybe there was something else I can't remember [19:43] next question: [19:43] do you love Left 4 dead? [19:43] XDDD [19:43] It has to do with our writing :P [19:43] Wanna do a zombie vn? [19:43] I'll admit I miss it, which is a good thing I think. [19:44] Mmm.... I have no idea. I don't think it's the kind of theme I want to create for actually [19:44] zombie VN? Wasn't there a pc98 zombie vn? [19:44] especially if it's horror more than anything else [19:44] the one with that screenshot [19:44] where the protagonist was going "guaaaaaaa! Shirei da!" [19:44] Shii [19:46] nya? [19:46] ? [19:47] brb mentalist [19:48] oh! [19:48] just thought of an interesting question [19:48] Why do you use anime/manga style in your projects? [19:49] because its better than american [19:49] but thats only me ;P [19:49] I'll buy that [19:49] Because it's how I learned how to draw [19:49] and it's what I can do ^^; [19:50] very practical reason [19:50] (also, I like it, of course, but I don't swear only by it) [19:50] Then, if personal ability wasn't a hindrance, would you choose a different style? [19:53] *shrugs* [19:53] a mix of european and japanese style maybe [19:53] it depends on the project [19:54] would you consider making a Myst-like game? [19:54] Asylium, Kittease, UP = anime [19:54] MagBou could have been slightly different... and current project too [19:54] Myst?... What part of Myst? everything with moving around in 1st pov and puzzles? [19:54] I think a style similar to the Mana series would fit Magbou [19:55] also, yep [19:55] the moving around, especially [19:55] Not such puzzles. Moving around, why not... but it would need to be in 3D, so the project would need to fit [19:55] unless we're talking about a lesser moving around [19:55] rough pencils, soft watercolor style, etc. (magbou) [19:55] which I already did [19:56] how about a click on this part of the screen type of moving around? [19:56] with an invisible map engine [19:56] Myeah.... as long as hotspots are obvious [19:56] I've played too many games where I got stuck because of barely visible exits ^^; [19:57] same thing for items [19:57] I know the feeling [19:57] but brain-damaging puzzles are even worse [19:57] wild arms series [19:59] never played [19:59] but I played Myst and 7th Guest [19:59] it damages me enough ^^; [19:59] I don't like games removed from the reality [19:59] wild arms combines vague text clues [19:59] with actual puzzles [20:00] For example, I don't like when games use a weird minigame not related to the action at all [20:00] (except Quick Time Events which I like because of my Don Bluth's game past) [20:00] I thought Wild Arms was a RPG? [20:00] yup [20:01] the dungeons are filled with puzzles [20:01] like, this one room with lotsa pillars on both sides [20:01] and a locked room at the end [20:01] myeaah... [20:01] there's a text clue there [20:01] I can deal with those to some extent [20:02] but I don't like it to be the main attraction [20:02] especially if it requires a lot of walking around [20:02] ++especially if it has random encounters [20:02] Something like "When the adventurer looks to his beginnings, a step in the right direction will open the way) [20:02] turn to face entrance and go to the character's right? [20:02] nope [20:03] :d [20:03] go to the entrance [20:03] rotate the screen [20:03] and you'll find that one of the pillars has this boot symbol [20:03] you're supposed to use the boot tool [20:03] to kick it down [20:03] and cause a chain reaction [20:03] opening the door [20:03] that's one of the easier ones [20:04] corz [20:04] it doesn't help that there are at least 5 main characters [20:04] with 3 unique tools each [20:04] all used for problem solving or navigating the dungeons/cities [20:07] but the Wild Arms series is still awesome [20:07] just the right mix [20:08] intriguing stories, hard puzzles, awesome music, challenging battles and interesting characters all under a neo-western backdrop [20:08] cept for that psp srpg [20:08] I don't like srpgs [20:10] ha :) [20:10] I don't like most srpgs [20:10] but I love SRT [20:11] (or SRW, depending) [20:11] Super Robot Wars? [20:11] kikered and drake are your srpg ppl [20:11] I think FIA is into SRW [20:11] and Enerccio [20:11] :) [20:12] how bout space sims? [20:12] example? [20:12] Freespace 2! [20:12] *gasm* [20:12] Probably the best I've played :) [20:12] agreed [20:13] Dive dive dive! Hit your burners pilot! [20:13] I was like "ZOMG! That's effin huge!" [20:13] haha [20:13] :3 [20:13] I died so many times in that mission [20:13] I think I just shrieked a lot XD [20:13] The colossus was an epic fail [20:13] haha yeah :) [20:13] it's quite something ^^; [20:13] All that build-up [20:14] and the enemy had a fleet of Sathanas [20:14] you feel *so* lost when it goes in smoke [20:14] yeah XD [20:14] "Yeah, we beat the Sathanas! We're so cool!" [20:14] I think the Sathanas is also slightly stronger [20:14] "Uh... commander? They have 15 others" [20:14] "....... *shoots self*" [20:14] they needed bombers to take out the laser turrets [20:14] just to give it a fighting chance [20:14] The Sathanas mission is also quite a bitch [20:14] fail [20:14] Kept messing up destroying its beams [20:15] yeah [20:15] (but cool thing is that you *can* keep playing ^^) [20:15] till I discovered that you had to boost very far away [20:15] right :) [20:15] avoids flak too [20:16] and of course, final mission [20:16] and the voice acting was excellent [20:16] burners have never been so slow [20:16] Definitely :) [20:16] really kept you in the game [20:16] those little touches [20:16] like gettin scolded for doin it wrong [20:16] "When they'll need your opinion, they'll promote you admiral. For now, shut up" [20:16] or similar [20:16] IT felt real [20:16] zomg! pilot! Where the effin way are ya flying? [20:17] soldiers scared, suspicious of their Command, etc... [20:17] lol :) [20:17] Enemies in bound. Configuration something something [20:17] it keeps resonating in my mind:) [20:17] hostile configuration [20:17] right ^^ [20:18] now what would be even more awesome [20:18] is tha system in a mecha game! [20:18] that [20:18] mmmm [20:18] well, while it's as good, there's Another Century Episode [20:18] the space battles seemed so real too [20:18] *not as good [20:18] one fighter can only do so much [20:18] but it's in japanese, so... kinda missing a lot of it [20:19] yeah :) [20:19] You did depend on your formation [20:19] and how you led it [20:19] you sure ain't takin down the sathanas with your little interceptor [20:19] Though sometimes things were very random [20:19] Sky gunner has kinda similar gameplay [20:20] but I hate the controls [20:20] no control [20:20] and this time, you can take out the big ship with your little plane [20:21] I saw some youtube vids poking fun at FS2's gameplay [20:22] eh? [20:22] who dares! [20:22] an army of bombers takin down the Sathanas in very little time [20:22] like an entire batallion of em [20:22] Thus, the gtva were stupid [20:22] for sacrificng the colossus [20:23] when some cheap bombers could have done a better job [20:24] haha :) [20:24] yeah, guess balance was not perfect [20:24] but I don't mind. I played it for the single player [20:25] me too [20:25] it was an experience [20:26] how bout that tag marking weapon? [20:26] epic fail too [20:27] tag the enemy and the mother ship will target em automatically [20:27] mmm... yeah... I'm not sure [20:27] sounds good [20:27] it did destroy them quickly [20:27] sure [20:27] but only if you're near the ship [20:27] lol, yeah [20:27] I remember tagging and not having any support ^^; [20:27] and the things were dumbfire [20:28] "We're not properly armed here, command!" [20:28] eehee ^^ [20:28] we do hear that a lot :) [20:28] "where the hell is the fleet command? Where's my coffee command?!" [20:28] I actually just rammed my ship into the enemy fighters [20:28] xD [20:28] shields at max to the front [20:28] bam! [20:28] with full shield... I suppose it works? [20:28] yeah XD [20:28] ram em [20:29] Hm, forgot to change the nick again. ^^; [20:29] yo [20:29] ola! [20:29] I found another person who understands the greatness that is Freespace 2 [20:29] :) [20:30] Mm, noticed when catching up on the log ^^; [20:30] btw, you should join drake, Scout, enerccio and/or I sometime for Advance Wars ;) [20:30] vasudans: Zomg! We're soo smart and noble and all that [20:31] a few minutes later... [20:31] vasudans: Agh! We're under attack! Where's our support, terran!? [20:31] :3 [20:31] Advance Wars? [20:31] :/ [20:31] still 30 min left [20:32] apparrently, Kikered is good at it [20:32] Guest51061 : aww ^^; [20:32] I'm decent, I guess ^^; [20:32] :'( [20:32] I will never know [20:32] >) [20:32] are we talking about the GBA then DS thingie? [20:32] no [20:32] online version [20:32] ah [20:32] http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic [20:33] But it is basically an online version of those games. =3 [20:33] I see [20:33] I normally wouldn't click on such a questionable lookin url [20:33] however, Enerccio has a good track record for postin lulzy links [20:34] as long as you don't see nsfw words in the link, it's generally safe. ^^; [20:34] doesn't work [20:34] *guinea pig* [20:35] page is slooow [20:35] oh well [20:36] time to eat! [20:36] and watch some Kaamelott [20:36] * Monele is now known as MoniEat [20:36] puya~ [20:36] Later [