(Art in games considered as "extra" and "added on" rather than "essential", if I recall correctly.) After all, it might have not been sointeresting I guess the extra and added on is Ren's side? Because it is certainly similar to that last discussion we had right here. :) I'm just sick and tired of seeing how certain people seem to think that a pretty picture or a technically acceptable one are all you could aim to And like I worded out back then.... Or that the writing is so much important than the story Well, I agree with that For text boxes, they are customization instead of pretty picture. than the art, pardon An effort to make them unique looking. :) That's the point, you seem to think you agree with me oh? you don't think I do? I must be REALLY bad at explaining this No, Fia oh For me it's not a matter of customizing Of course, your opinions did hold truth as well, so I will agree on a good story is necessary Well, for me. It's not the individual elements which are important. But how they're used over-all in the VN. It's a matter of trying to do what most in the forum are capable to do with the story with the art, so that it really becomes a visual novel, instead of a novel with visuals So I don't think it's even right to judge a VN based on specific elements. Hmm, I will have to disagree on that, cloud. Especially when you are looking at current trend of using NVL. trend schmend who cares? In fact, not everyone bothered to make a text box to give out the professional look. I do as I wish. I always do as I wish =P And personally, I believe you can have a story without words, FWIW Stratchinsky, or however you spell his damn name demonstrated it, among others Well, I did attempt that in Fade. but it wasn't very effective, apparently. I'll have to try it Cloud to give you an opinion So... how do you think I don't agree with you, Ren? Mm, silent stories... If I was better at the arts, I'd try it. @.@ Like, if you are fine with Reallife's default textbox, then why did you decide to alter the font and the textbox? :) The example you made with Wings 2 revised and the pictures of the protagonist stepping away from the rooftop did succed, though I will certainly need to hear your "excuse" on that. not you Cloud oh... ahaha, my mistake then. FIA: Real Life wasn't a serious effort I told you before, I was talking about Fia's comment about customization Actually I think I was the only one that decide we did not need much customised text box. Oh, I must've skimmed over that sorry See, I'm still mean but I wanted a customized text box! If I remembered vaguely, you wanted to emulate a YMK into it. :) exactly Cloud:there's nothing wrong with wanting a customized box For me... it's all aboutm "I want this and that. So there!" Of course, I won't treat a few customizing as "must-have". I want it, so it must be so! You see, that's the kind of forma mentis I agree with! Let's just say it is a few added cosmetic before the creator decided to send the completed game out. You feel a need, you realize it in your creation Ah, like I said, they are not "pretty pictures". Pretty pictures = load of effort VN ONANISM FTW! :P pretty pictures = loads of skill coupled with talent but I think they were good enough compared to my own games, I think I did a better job with the art in Real Life. which pictures? ooh It seems like Broken Sky will surprise that. :) Yes, you did.Although Wings 2 was more charming to me art-wise *surpass Hmm.... well, we were confined to one month y'know To be fair though... I think it's important to be able to settle for less, especially if it's a one-person effort. =( And that is why the "We don't need a customized font and text box" comment from me back then. :P Ah, but you see, I never settled for less. Especially when the game was not totally scripted in. I did all the art to the best of my abilities at the time I made my games. Wings 2 was made long before Real Life True... I mean settling for less than the envisioned ideal. never! never compromise! Hahaha XD Even in the face of armageddon never compromise in before getting vaporized And ultimately, Ren. allusion to Watchmen, Final Volume. You need to consider the maker as well.... nono, I totally agree I am more of an artist than a writer myself. why let the community dictate your own game's direction? So if I cannot work on a part that is not my forte, I need to double my effort on the other side. that's acceptable It is... but y'see, you're putting a mental limiter on yourself by saying that you're more of an artist than a writer you have handy excuse for not doing your best in other aspects am I wrong? Maybe. Or it's recognizing your own weaknesses. that's fine My, that is certainly not pleasing. but that doesn't mean you have to think that you suck While I admit writing is not my forte, I will always do my best on it. Also, improving your weaknesses only makes you round and blunt! ;P It is only by improving your strengths that you become keen and sharp! while I'm making a games, I'm the best goddamned programmer, composer, artist or wateva in the universe! XD making a games...lolz It's a me If you know you are a righty, you should not burden yourself by doing everything with your left hand. Of course, that's my own opinion. Each to his/her own. the only purpose of knowing your own limits is in order to surpass them * Kikered_ completely saw it coming look at Tidus in FFX and that blitzball thingy Aw, cloud. he wasn't satisfied with "We'll try our best" he wanted "We're gonna win!" You know I only reach the no.7 at the FF department. ...and they didn't win, did they? ;P FFX makes me sad They win if you play well enough but even if they didn't it's not the results that really matter it's the winning attitude they had y'see, I Ah, but looking at an older square game. I'm seeing a defeatist attitude It might be just me, but I think it's very wrong to have that sort of winning attitude and not win. =P in all this talk about recognizing your limits Chrono Trigger, first optional encounter with Lavos. Kikered: I disagree Even with game genie code giving you all best stats and items, lavos is unkillable. I'm sure you, and many others, would. =P ever play a sport? And after it charged up, it is a sure dead. or enter any competitive event? where you need to prepare a lot beforehand That definitely does not support "surpass your limit" debate. :P Ah, but in sport.... An athlete is best not to overdo himself/ Hm... I've been in a few video game competitions and solo festivals. FIA: It's not arrogance to think that you're the best during a competition. As long as you don't make any over acts to manifest this Dropping out due to sprain at the last hour is certainly not the best way in competing. it's just a mental attitude to help you do your best Kimagure Orange road ;_; You can try to surpass your limit, but overdoing can leave to disastrous result. My point. :P Of course but who said anything about overdoing it? What if I oversprained by brain when trying to surpass my writing skill(Even if I am doing my best)? it's an enlightened way of thinking that you're the best, even if you know that you're not. I might have been releasing WS in a hospital then. :D No, that's what overdoing it really is. Surpass limit = Overdoing your limit In the very literal sense of the word, that is probably correct. =P yes, very literal Surpass = To get ahead, or pass a border. very literal, indeed Fis:for you http://www.chiboard.com/images/27196/chiboard-b2t30295-20080625_322226_upby-Duky.jpg Fia* it's OVA kenshin Yes? What is with Kenshin? I am just trying to boicott this conversation XD haha Ah, blame the one that question my writing. :) Well, I 'm still seeing this defeatist attitude... in fact, I'd like to see a little bit of bloodywyvern in us all. That's the last thing I want to see in people. =( Ah, but "Humble" is not "defeat" Exactly. =P Besides, it's fun to serve humble pie to those who think too highlyof themselves. ;) no, you're using humility as a euphemism for your defeatist attitude I'm not sure boasting in public equals being truly cofident Ah, but cloud. Ren: true I tried my best in writing, and was "defeated". there, see? Shouldn't I admit it humbly? :) No, you should never admit defeat in the first place XD Ah, but cloud. I'm telling you honestly that WS was good I never said the word 'defeat" before you did. :P but you just did I tried my best in writing, and was "defeated". Not before you said so. :P yes, and your point would be? In a game, whoever gave up first is the loser. :P sure i fail to see the relevance of that statement though Me either. ^^; Then should we head to a better discussion? And thanks for thinking so for WS. Well, continue with what you were trying to say brb lunch * Kikered_ is now known as Kik|Lunch later What was I trying to say? Drake said something that I saw as a part of this defeatist attitude Drake?*_* Drake? * FIA-Kaiser looks around. I don't see an audience beyond lsf for our games or something like that I can't possibly associate him and defeatism attitudes Well, it could have been an objective opinion Ah, but cloud... But I saw that as admitting defeat to a harsh audience But I've been wrong about him before, I could be wrong again You knew that Project Nattsu had been translated and did well in other foreign site? so? That sounds like an audience beyond lsf? :P no argument, I was paraphrasing Drake Well, I just decided to answer your "so?". :D of course Ultimately, I don't find myself "defeated", since I actually released something played by quite a number. well, that's good. Of course, WS did not have more exposure compared to most vns due to its violence nature. there's a difference to knowing your limits and resigning yourself to stay within those limits For example... But "If I had a fan that enjoyed my doujin, I would be happy." Quoted from Comic Party. I know that my writing skill surpasses my art skills by large margin. and I know that I suck compared to Ren, Doomfest, Deji and (insert random deviant art member here) *had even one fan however When I'm making a VN. I'm still the best god-dammned artist in the universe That is a little arrogant, no? :P and that's the mindset I use to complete my games. No No It's self-motivation and it works I have a good portfolio of games to back my claim. and after I've released my game (the detachment process) Perhaps we are driven with different motivation. I can now objectively see that I wasn't the best god-damned artist in the universe but I take pride in what I did. Mine is more like "I am doing my best for the sake of this story to be told." acceptable Of course, yours are your own, so I cannot diagree on that. A good example would be your favorite, HnK Kenshiro would have been dead long ago if he entered a battle thinking that "I'm not that good." Hmm? Tetsuo Hara? Buronson? and Death Note Ah, I guess you forgot some lines in toki vs Raoh. Was Kenshiro fighting? no he was a spectator Ah, but toki has spoken something that he would agree about. But that is in the spoiler department, so. :) probably so I'll use Death Note to illustrate my point again. If Raito didn't think he was some freakin God, he wouldn't even have lasted until episode 4 before L caught his ass. But no, he thought he was god. He believed he was better than even the powerful Shinigami Ouch, I got spoiler'ed and it worked for him until he got too cocky also, look at every cliche console rpg hero (in rpgs with character development). at some point, they do something horrible they lose confidence in themselves and then, as the journey progresses, they learn to believe in themselves and what the have done/are capable of doing. and (cliche) against insurmountable odds, they somehow come out on top. I'm not saying that we can imitate their success Confidence is one thing, pride(Later arrogance) is another. :P but that attitude is admirable but like I said, it's not arrogance to think that you'r the best when in a competition. "Learn to believe in themselves and what they have done/are capable of doing" <-- Self confidence what dou you mean? do Just quoting of your words. yes and what does "<-- Self Confidence" mean? that is self confidence? oh "Learn to believe in themselves" <-- Gaining self confidence. "whate they have done/capable of doing." <--- Confident that they can do it. Without taking pride in your own abilities, how could you possibly say that you have confidence in them? Hmm, if you have knowledge of how to work on something, does it give you the confidence to work on it? *doesn't No, not without skill but if you decided to do it anyway why go in while doubting your own skills in the back of your mind? If you have self-confidence, why will you doubt in the first place? :) you're straying from the line of reasoning here. Hmm, if you have knowledge of how to work on something, does it give you the confidence to work on it? Yes, given you understand it ok, so how did "If you have self-confidence, why will you doubt in the first place? :)" enter the discussion? Just answering your " why go in while doubting your own skills in the back of your mind?" that was related to what you said earlier If you don't have any self-confidence, you will not be in the front of any performance, no? even if you don't have the skill, if you decide to do something anyway, why do it while doubting yourself? And how about we try to ask the two bystanders to share their words? :) fair enough Ren? ? Just don't ask about DeathNote, I only reached vol 2 haha Actually I just got spoilered as well. FIA said: Hmm, if you have knowledge of how to work on something, does it give you the confidence to work on it? I said: even if you don't have the skill, if you decide to do something anyway, why do it while doubting yourself? Also, I think you didn't grasp my question. I doubt that If you have knowledge of said task, won't you be knowing how to be skillful at it? not exactly knowledge is not equal to skill I might have said I have knowledge of art, but I doubt mine will be as par as say, Ren here, no? I can only make comparisons whith what I know knowledge is not equal to skill Knowledge is something you learn... for example, I know how the body parts of the female body are supposed to be drawn Heh, I'd say you two tend to take me and others as examples for the art too often Well, Ren, you are a good example. :) but I don't neccesarily have the skills to draw them correctly very often. Ah, then you lack the knowledge to put them in good use. Skill is acquired through practice wrongo But you see, I know I tend to get discouraged sometimes because I highlight my weak points too much, and that makes me loose time I would say I suffer the same problem. To understand more about anatomy, we look at our old and dusty biology book. yes, but that was just an example That way we can understand how muscle and gland goes. that is knowledge Then there is that knowledge in how to apply said "knowledge" into practice. I wouldn't necessarily say you have to auto hypnotize and convince yourself you're the ruler of the world/universe, but taking action instead of dwelling into self destructive critique is essential * lordcloudx nods Oh, critique is knowledge as well. All the times I got better, it was because something or someone dragged me into doing, instead of thinking too much that ruler of the wordl/universe attitude is only for a select few like myself :) Fia:I'm used to have my portfolios critiqued by professors, that is more than welcome So when you used the "No, not without skill" It reads as "No, not without knowledge" to me. well, it's a simple misunderstanding But I'm way more destructive than they'll ever be, since I only see the wrong, and indulge in self critique way too much There is nothing wrong in self-critique Cloud:I do that too, after a big dose of Yaoi scanlations :3 In fact, I do it all the time, wasting paper upon paper to get the right one. nothing wrong, if it has a counterpart But that is a measle bargain for a lifetime knowledge. My honest oinion is:being like most dArtists is stupid, they can't even accept the simplest observations, being like me is also wrong, since I ultimately loose time You have to choose a happy compromise Also, I have issues trying to find a good description for Xalinne's twins T_T huh? No one still added it to the archives Samu will never play it, I'm sure Try "You found a drunk bum in a tavern, who will tell you about Xalinne's twins if you will pay for his drink"? At first I have thoughts about the narrator being involved with the whole thing, but I don acknowledging your own weaknesses is good; attempting to surpass them is even better. 't think he is a beastman. I was thinking more something like:You get fucked by ANYTHING in ANY possible way ren: No dragons, unfortunately. Cloud, I agree with you 100%, I'm just saying it's hard to do for me Thank God there were no dragons ;_; Knowledge in when it is too overdoing is necessary. I'm not saying that you should overdo it Or goblins, kobolds. You know, some porn writers forget that the flower is a delicate thing, after all Of course, I will say that it is WoW driven. Let me rephrase that so that the meaning is disambiguated for you YOU SHOULDN'T STICK A GIANT ORC PENIS IN IT JUST FOR FUN! It isn't ambiguous Then we go with the usual surpass = overdo again? :) it seems to be for FIA see what I mean? I'm saying I try to do it, but I have a long way to go Yeah, now I do I expected that one and was trying to pre-empt it But seriously, it stretches only so far T^T but he typed faster Aw, now I am at fault? not really Anyway, I like to talk to people with your attitude To be honest, I surpassed myself in the last two release. that's good The first WS, to completely make a vn. then surpass yourself more i nthe next ones don't look back Second, to write a normal day life vn for RL. Just...don't stretch it too much, ok Fia? I know my limit, Ren. :) So do I I will always try to learn without overdoing it. but that doesn't mean I have to be satisfied with them and I'm beginning to see a pattern here Vaginas? ogres? 'overdo' seems to be used as an excuse. Sometimes that is not an excuse. it seems that way to me Trainers told the trainees that as well, no? my Tennis coach always told me not to overexert myself in practice which is not the same as telling me that "this guy has a good forehand, but yours is better." Why will a trainer give excuse to the trainees to prevent them from getting all fatique at start of the official match. Overexert = overdo no argument Then that nulls it being an excuse. :) who said anything about using it as an excuse 'overdo' seems to be used as an excuse. oh, that one It seems to me that you're using 'overdo' as an excuse for telling yourself that you're not very good at a particular area. It's ok to say this normally but... when you've started making a VN and you keep telling yourself that. If you truly believe that and are not just saying it to others, that is You have to understand, cloud. I see that as a defeatist attitude If I am to overdo myself.... WS will not be released till now, as long as I am not satisfied with its artwork. surpass limits = strive to be better And RL will be far from a NanoRenO. :) Not with me around, it won't lookit the freakin number of images I made for that original backgrounds, character art, multiple expressions hah! I even had time to make that text box and word that intro scene Ah, but if the story matters more, then what use if it is not available? * Kik|Lunch is now known as Kikered_ Let's not forget... one of the characters are mine. :) with my drawing :P Of course, I believe that you can easily whip out a script in case I decided to stall. I can. I assure you So in a way, I was not able to overdo RL, since there was peer pressure. :) it seems that 'overdo' needs to be defined since you're the one using it please define Overdo = Surpassing your limit to unbelieveable porportion that can lead to certain disastrous effect? And welcome back, Kikered_ WB :3 And in a sense, Toki overdid himself while fighting against Raoh. Sekatsu-ko! enough, I get it your definition, that is however... if I were mean enough to play the semantics game with you Uh, I think each dictionary reads like that for "overdo" if you have surpassed your limit to unbelievable proportions, how could it possibly lead to disastrous effects when you've already surpassed them in the first place? But don't worry I am not as knowledgeable enough like Bloodywyvern as to make my own word. I understand what you're trying to say :P Disastrous effect? Oh, there is alot. sure but probably not from having surpassed your limits WS for example, will need me more than 4 years to overdo it. you have surpassed them as in past-tense after all Disastrous #1: All beta-testers leaving FIA: If I might interrupt Disastrous #2: Many effort wasted please/ please? *effort = time Go ahead Ok What makes you think that WS couldn't have been better if you took four years to complete it? could or couldn't? My words are clear and unequivocal. There is no need to interpret. Are you trying to ask me "What makes you think that WS could have been worse if you took four years to complete it?" no I'm asking you what makes you think that it could not have been better than the current release if you took four years to complete it instead. the "could not have been better" is certainly intriguing Because it sounds actually like "could have been worse" indeed, that will be disastrous #3. really, FIA all your disasters are hypothetical and could have happened at any stage during the game development. Certainly, the longer the time-frame the more likely that one of these disasters could happen. Ah, then you are insulting beta-testers in general but if the game did get completed While I agree that some might be loyal till 1-2 years, I am not sure about 8 years then I'm almost certain that it could have been better than the current WS. (Hello again, everyone. Still on this topic? =P ) yup it's interesting to say the least. And do you know why the long time frame? Why to further my knowledge in art and writing. then why didn't you? If I did so, can I backed down the promised beta-tester? that's your problem for taking beta-testers in the first place Also, you knew my own of saying that "Do not overdo myself" So why should I overdo it now? You are indeed taking the discussion back to a circle. haha, what an unjust accusation that was Each to his own, no? Oh, it is not hardly unjust. Not at all. :) do tell go on, explain how am I taking this argument in circles... any more than you have been doing. Perhaps we should establish our definitions again before we argue ourselves blue in the face. ^^; good idea surpass limits = strive to improve yourself Now now, cloud enough we move on I already written it in B&W. And what I said about my motto of not reciting myself. Also, I think I refer too many of your own quotes already. Yes, we should move on. I'll do it for you then for Kikered's benefit Overdo = Surpassing your limit to unbelieveable porportion that can lead to certain disastrous effect? so I asked him: How can it have disastrous effects when you've already surpassed your limits? I don't mean to instigate this further, but it certainly doesn't seem like we're all on the same page regarding those definitions. =P haha, but that question was just to be mean =P I know what he really wanted to say Well, kikered. I am only knowledged enough to use standardized words. :) kikered: even if we're not. Let's take those definitions to mean how we defined them in this context it's like how laws define terms as they are used in the law. Well, if you asked me, cloud. I will be a little blunt. May I? Haha, sure. Think you guys kinda scared Ren off though ;) surpass limits, hereinafter taken to mean "strive to improve yourself" nah Nay, I'm just adding a game to the archives sorry Ren'Ai Archives? =O Ren: most probably a drunk doing the talking Or an old geezer Of course, his tone does not suggest inclusion of acholic, so I guess it is the latter. If you don't want to hear it, then okay cloud. :) don't want to hear what? Well, if you asked me, cloud. I will be a little blunt. May I? sure I think you just answered with a "nah" Well, to be honest... no, that was to Kikered I don't see yourself overdid for Wings II. I didn't overdo myself Especially with a hurried release. You misunderstand me Kikered:Yup? Aw, what is the point when both stnads on the same side? Ooh =3 you're wrong There is no arguement if both decided not to overdo themselves. we're still not seeing eye-to-eye I didn't overdo myself Then why tell other to overdo? but I did do everything with the best of my abilities at that time Why should they scare me away though? :P you are equating surpass limits to overdo It certainly reminds me of the old story of an old crab telling the young crablings to walk straight. :P enough with the analogies You know, cloud. and let me explain my side That time for Wings II is rather now. let me explain my side Go ahead. Thank you Look, I did everything with the best of my abilities for Wings II the art doesn't look even as good as Real Life, I know but you see, I did the artwork a looong time ago Can I say "Objection!"? :P no, you can't let me finish Aw. :( Hold it Ren: yes? Hey, that's not fair. :( The art in Wings 2, I like it better than TL well, that's an relative opinion I can honestly say it moves me a but that proves my point No, it isn't.I'm the ruler of the universe, my tastes are supreme Y'see, I did the art with the best of my abilities at that time And it proves that you are biasing on me. :) Now, here:I'll whip you up!MWAHAHAHAHA! not really, I just didn't want to have to answer something from you before I finsihed now, I continue But you can have something from Ren? That is a bias written all over it. :P whatever Very well. Continue? you're interrupting my train of thought. Let me contine, please? No, it's being curteous to the ruler of the universe what she said see? So I am not a ruler of the universe or something. Y'see, the art in Wings II was completed about 2-3 years ago give or take I guess I am just a low life hermit crab that sunbasks elsewhere, no? :) * FIA-Kaiser got urge to yell "Objection!" again... (I'll igore that) and at that time, I really did it with the best of my abilities the same could be said for the writing and the presentation I did them all with the honest feeling that I was creating something really special without compromising a single aspect of production. I never once thought that "Oh, but this isn't very good at all." during the development stage. You see, I believed that my work was the work that would redefine the OELVN scene. If people paid enough attention to it because it tells something about the versatility of the medium and the many different ways it could be utilized to tell a story. I didn't see Wings II as just another kinetic novel. I saw it as something unique that I created with the best of my abilities. I cried when I wrote the script fer gosh sakes. I cried when I tested it myself and read through the story that's when I knew that I had achieved the desired effect and perhaps more. Finished. go on and object all you want Awww A fine tale. =) :3 well? Object, Fee-ah I still feel that one needn't feel that he is the best ____ in the world to do one's best on it though. ;P of course no question about that we all have different approaches but it's not wrong to feel that way even if you don't succeed My apology. I instinctually nodded off... well? I await your objection. Well, that sounds just like me with WS, except a few points. "I never once thought that "Oh, but this isn't very good at all." during the development stage." I have second thoughts, tons of them long story short. I had this vision of what I wanted to make and the final product surpassed that vision in other aspects that I didn't even expect. "You see, I believed that my work was the work that would redefine the OELVN scene." <--- Just for the sake of telling the tale. And I didn't see WS as just a game. It's my brainchild of sort. A Marliene, if you will. but now you're having second thoughts thanks to the lukewarm reception? Also.... A few lines certainly does not prove you point about surpassing your limit. (I'll igore that) and at that time, I really did it with the best of my abilities the same could be said for the writing and the presentation That is pretty much what I did. That is not overdo at all. ............ ... ^^; you're still equating overdo to surpassing your limits And why I have to object? Whilst you are waiting for mugen, can't you overdo by sharpening it again? I strove to create Wings Ii with the best of my abilities and I did it So did I with WS. Lemme see if I can come up with an example that differentiates the two. Ah, but I have different work ethics from you But I know my limit.(Best of my abilities at that time) But you questioned my defeatism by not surpassing the limit. If I did X art for X game of mine with the best of my abilities at that time I see no reason to redo it just because I gained some new skills It doesn't have the same feeling I had when I first drew it Why not? I think you have remakes under your belt, right? it's an aesthetic thing those remakes Surpassing one's limit: working to the best of your ability and making something better than your older works with hard work, dedication, and all that good stuff. that does not sound like surpassing surpassing = going over Yeah, it's being better than you used to be. ...... * Jake` has joined #baka-trio hello, Jake "You surpassed me."= "You are now over me." Over-doing it: working to the best of your ability and making something better than your older works with hard work, dedication, and all that good stuff but permanently damaging your wrist in the process. That said, cloud. Kikered: good one If you really wanted to prove your side of "surpassing yourself" I already did Then those remake seems to be a good prove you just refuse to acknowledge it Hi, Jake. Hi Then why not for your last game that is Wings II? let me explain those remakes for ya Whilst waiting for Mugen for eternity... or do you want me to answer your question first? I am, but don't count on me not nodding off... then, you are rude. At least, I would interpret it that way but I'll continue I am way too overdoing myself by accompany you with this talk. I will not prefer another circle. enough, I shall continue regarding those remakes the reason for them is better explained in my author's notes The reason why I refer to those remakes.... because I think either DaFool or mikey questioned the purpose of them once. they did but not my remakes The remakes, if I recalled. Now the reason for my remakes Something like "Any reason to remake it instead of making a new story?" yes? and I'll never get to the reason unless you stop and let me continue Of course, I might have Winter Shard v2 in the next 4 years, who knows? :) you've given me a barrage of questions and taunts without letting me get a word in. Give me a break already! Anything to even with your reasoning that you don't redo something. Uh, I am not taunting. whatever I will get an energy drink in case. Go on if you wanted. how rude I realize that Wings is a type of story that will always cause mixed reactions no matter how I try to revise it apart from completely revamping the entire plot. his is the reason why I chose to include an option to view the edited or original version of the story based on the reader's discretion. My reason for the two different versions is because I find that this story is capable of more than one ending, but since it's essentially a kinetic novel, it didn't seem right to introduce choices for branching paths. (Not rude at all. I live by energy drink back in uni. :)) Many people seem to think that suicide was the only possible outcome of the final scenario in the original version, but was it really? After all, why would Kotori be smiling at someone who is about to commit suicide? Weird At first I only played the original Well... unless she is some ghost that wanted a company... it's capable of multiple interpretations and I thought he didn't suicide, actually IIRC the one in the edited version is my interpretation it's pretty open, yup papillon thought it was suicide and so did a few others, I think This game may not be suitable for people under 18 years of age. <---The game is actually NOT suitable for anyone under 18, duh! Hush for now, Ren. :D mh? * FIA-Kaiser just drank. Good to go. oh I'll leave then T^T D: haha it's all ur fault, FIA Well? You don't hush the Ruler of the Universe! I don't really have much time left, so best hurry. To continue those remakes were made because I felt that the story could have been better... but before you interrupt yet again. I remade them because I regained the same feeling I had when I first made them. I felt that they deserved a remake at that time. so I did. I didn't just decide to remake them because I was shallowly thinking that the art could have been better or something like that. Why is that not a good enough reason for a remake anyway? Or re-packaging, or whatever? I second that Jake: it's not a good enough reason... FOR ME I create based on feelings and inspiration while grounded on logic but logic will not defeat what I really want to make. so basically, what I want is top priority finished Hmmm... Can I be blunt? you can Okay I still don't see this as overdoing? I'll ignore any more comments like that So you are telling me that you decided to change a selective few of your vns because it does not adress to the readers properly? That sounds like "defeat" to me. wrongo Eh? It's a long story, Jake. Want a log? =P read everything I said more carefully Kikered: Possibly... Yes, I heard you Some readers misunderstood your story Is it more, or less interesting than /Winter Shard/, which I just started? :P correct they misinterpreted my story, to be exact And knowing your first effort "failed", you decided to "righted' yourself. so I catered the edited version to their whims wrong again why do you think I included the first version? Now I am not sure if the old lordcloudx is the same as this one here. It seems to me that there's a difference between "less than perfect" and "failure"... because I believe that its writing is superior to the edited version Because abiding to others is so not "lordcloudx" It's just that it takes a certain kind of reader to appreciate that FIA: exactly! Since you are what I will called a "I do what I wanted to do" yup So that remakes are not really the work you wanted in essence. They are created because someone failed to capture its spirit in the first original one. yes That sounds like a sort of "defeat" no, it's not It's catering to a more mainstream audience I am not sure if there is any well known artist that will redraw his artwork just because some sneezed at it. Jake: You'll probably want to keep playing Winter Shard then. =P which was my assessment of the lsf readers. Not that this conversation isn't interesting. Now now, cloud But games are probably more fun. =P You made wings back then not for lsf. exactly So that is overruled for you to rely on the lsf comments. I don't But you ended up being influenced. but I did make a special edited version for them FIA: true enough That totally messed up with some of your quotes. about not allowing myself to be influenced by the community when making games? Not really And to tell you something... there's no contradiction, if you'll allow me to explain. I always try to build up on my limit. 2 years before ws. http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/Special/tale/E001.jpg 1.5 years before ws. http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/Special/tale/E002.jpg 1 year before ws. http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/Special/tale/E003.jpg We're not talking about the same things here, it seems. http://www.geocities.com/ericfia/Special/tale/E004.jpg jake: It is best you play WS right now. :) Oh and thanks for spending effort on it. You abide to their demands. That is a sort of "surrender" to me. I've been meaning to for some time, really; it was just that talking about it yesterday reminded me of this enough to get me to download and install it. they didn't demand anything from my perspective, I made them understand the story that they couldn't get. Ah, but you decided to produce something that will fulfill their demand if necessary That could be explained by words. :) from my perspective, I made them understand the story that they couldn't get. you could treat the edited version as a slap to the face This is how it should read! So there! A slap? Okay, let's stop. You didn't get the message at all, take this edited version! smack! smack! smack! In your face narrations literal narrations I say, let's stop. ok :3 It is getting a little too personal right now. not really but if you say so Good, now off to my curfew. later Later, FIA hah! hah! hah! (Laharl laugh)